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Author Topic: My Burgman650 vs my Silverwing600  (Read 899 times)
minimac
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« on: September 13, 2020, 02:14:05 PM »

Now that I've put about 4K miles on the Silverwing, I think I can compare the two. The Burger was a 2006, the 'Wing is a 2011. The Burgman came to me with a Corbin 'long' seat which was very comfortable. The seat on the Silverwing is stock. For me it is very comfortable after I took off the butt stop. With it on, I was too close to the front, by about two inches. Removing it made all the difference in the world. I always felt I was riding ON the Burgman, and sit IN the Silverwing, which I prefer. Gas mileage on both machines is /was right about 50, with the slightest edge going to the Honda. The Burgman felt much more powerful(subjective) than the Silverwing. The Hondas' power just slowly builds and it pulls steadily. The Suzuki power seemed to come on much quicker an pulled strong. An added plus was the ability to manually shift and/or hold  a gear with the Burgman, which was super when running the twisties or coming down the mountains. That's a feature that should be on every maxiscooter! The handling on both was/is surprisingly good considering the weight of both. The weight might be an issue for some, but as soon as you're rolling, you don't feel it. As I had my Goldwing until recently, it was never an issue for me. Both machines suited my style of touring, and both had ample storage. I added large top cases with racks on them and at times used every bit of storage. It never affected the handling on either bike, even with 2 up. I liked the fact that the tires were bigger on the Suzuki-14 rear,15 front, which I think help make up for the short suspension travel. You can tell the Honda is built to a price point, and the suspension, while not bad, could be a whole lot better. The common cure is to change the rear shocks to Hagons and put Hyperpro springs in the forks, but the owner shouldn't have to do that to get a 'good' suspension.
 I had the CVT go bad on my Burgman, with less than 29k miles- on a well maintained machine. It's a very expensive fix. For that reason, and earlier well documented issues Suzuki never acknowledged,  I got rid of the Burgman- and won't buy another.
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 03:19:01 PM »

Thanks for sharing Sir.  Sounds like you're enjoying your SWing and will keep it for now ... or at least until the "next one" catches your fancy.
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 04:16:33 PM »

I'm of the same opinion of another lad in our local touring group that there's nothing wrong with the standard fork springs or rear shocks on the Silverwing. He owned his for eight years and I had mine for six years and we both toured in France and Germany with and without our lady wives, before we both downsized to the new Honda Forza 300 a couple of years ago.

As long as you adhere to Honda's recommended settings for tyre pressures and suspension settings for solo riding, and when carrying a passenger there's no problems whatsoever.

I have the odd lurk on the silverwing600 forum and with respect it seems this urge to upgrade to Hyperpro fork springs seems to be an over the Pond things. Usually from new owners expecting their newly acquired first maxi scooter to behave like the motorcycles they rode for years.. Or reading too many posts from what my friend who is Visiting Curmudgeon on there calls “Old men farkling”.





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minimac
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 06:49:18 PM »

Maybe those skinny narrow roads in jolly old England are better suited to the Silverwings (lack of)suspension. On this side of the pond, our higher speeds acerbate the Honda's shortcomings, suspension wise. It's probably fine for a great many riders, but some(many) like to get closer to maximizing the scooters capabilities to fully appreciate what a fine machine it is. The mentioned opinionated Curmudgeons seem to believe that improving a ride to better suit the owner is a mortal sin.
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Brubaker
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 09:18:11 PM »

We've plenty of narrow skinny roads, plenty of narrow skinny bendy roads and even ancient long straight military roads originally built by the Romans up here in jolly old Northern England. Both myself and the aforementioned opinionated curmudgeon managed just fine riding all of them on our Silverwings without ever a thought about changing fork springs or rear shocks. What would we have gained by changing them, it wouldn't have made them worth more when we both traded them in and downsized a couple of years ago.

Some of our narrow skinny roads also lead to North Sea and English Channel ferry ports and the ability to ride on European motorway/freeway/autobahns and also a great variety on their long skinny roads. I mentioned earlier a bog standard Silverwing can do it all, even riding on the opposite (right) side of the road that we're used to. That's an option of course that you don't have any experience of.

Bin the useless OE screen for a Givi Airflow, fit a decent sized top box, and the Silverwing is pretty much sorted. An added bonus is fitting the Honda lower leg wind deflectors, which we both had dealer fitted from new, along with the Honda heated grips. Upgrading the OE light bulbs if you do a lot of rural night riding is a good idea too.

Small changes like that improve the ride on a Silverwing and give you the ability to ride long distances in all weathers with good wind and weather protection and less wind noise.


P.S. I've just a had a look on that other forum and you must be the same minimac that bought the Silverwing with the ruined front and rear suspension. So really you've never ridden a Silverwing with the OE forks and rear shocks functioning normally as we have.









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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 03:57:26 AM »

Scooters are not one size fits all, thankfully there are mods that can make the ride your own. I like top boxes and grip heaters, others like custom seats and suspension. Many of us have been riding 40+ years so our needs and wants are formed over time. If one person is happy with the factory setup and another is not they are both right. So move on and go ride.
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 09:05:57 AM »

Scooters are one size fits all, if the seat height, leg room, ergonomics, overall weight, etc of a particular maxi scooter don't suit you, then you simply don't buy it.

Over here and in countries with massive scooter cultures like Italy and France, you'll very rarely if ever see a maxi scooter fitted with a backrest or a custom seat. It's more likely to be a scooter apron and handlebar muffs, that's because they're used as everyday all year round transport and not as recreational toys for a six month riding season.

Even now in mid September I'm preparing for the colder months, my Forza needs a dealer service as it's still under warranty and the dealer had to close during our enforced lockdown. There'll be the usual pre winter anti-corrosion prep on my maxi, and I've some new gloves and a textile suit in the winter riding wardrobe.

Winter riding is normal and always has been for my 40 plus years riding, and there's no reason to charge my regular routine. Riding is simpler than putting my maxi into hibernation, I'd be wasting 6 months of the 12 months Annual Road Tax I have to pay too.





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minimac
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2020, 03:28:19 PM »

.... That's an option of course that you don't have any experience of.
...Bin the useless OE screen for a Givi Airflow, fit a decent sized top box, and the Silverwing is pretty much sorted. An added bonus is fitting the Honda lower leg wind deflectors, which we both had dealer fitted from new, along with the Honda heated grips. Upgrading the OE light bulbs if you do a lot of rural night riding is a good idea too.

P.S. I've just a had a look on that other forum and you must be the same minimac that bought the Silverwing with the ruined front and rear suspension. So really you've never ridden a Silverwing with the OE forks and rear shocks functioning normally as we have.

You have NO idea where, how or what I have ridden in my close to sixty years of road riding and racing.  I have ridden many  Silverwings with normally functioning shocks and forks, and found them to be adequate- not good, but adequate. There is a big difference. I too am a year round rider, and always have been. And we get an average of over 100" of snow.
 You seem to think it's OK to "improve" your scooters with a different(better) windshield,and adding lower deflectors(which you needed for better wind management) adding heated grips (which Honda could have built in) and adding a brighter (Better) headlight bulb to be able to see at night. But somehow making the suspension better for the individual driving it is foolishness. Stop trolling. People asked me about the differences I found between the Burgman and Silverwing.
 I did buy the bike with the poor suspension(after thoroughly checking it out) because after making necessary changes, it suits my riding, and I got it at a very good price. If I can upgrade the suspension to better suit myself(and at close to the same money for stock parts), what business is it of anyone-especially a few who think they are "experts" in a different country? If you don't agree, fine. Go have a warm pint, and get over it. Find someone else to pontificate with.
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 07:52:57 PM »

Come on, play the game. Your Introduction on another forum clearly stated that you were considering buying a Silverwing and joined to gain info on them. So I don't believe for a second you've ridden 'many Silverwings' in fact any at all. If you had you certainly wouldn't have bought that lemon with the problems you regaled the members of that forum with.

Saying you got it for a good price is the standard excuse and cop out clause for a bad purchase. Especially as a couple of forum members at the time were selling well maintained Silver Wings with plenty of added extras.

This all year round riding and an average of 100 inches of snow is misleading, especially when you have both NY and FL locations listed. So you don't spend the winter months at your other location in the warmth of Florida then, I spent time in New York City in early January a couple of years ago and it was snowy, face numbingly cold, and vehicles where covered in white gunk so I don't think any maxi rider with an ounce of sense would be out riding for pleasure. Or risk dropping a 550 lb Tupperware covered scooter on black ice or snow. So we'll say you swap all that hassle when winter comes and head for the Sunshine State.

What's next, trolling? I don't think so, I'm just commenting on a maxi scooter I had six years of riding experience on, so I'd say I'm more than qualified to say what improves the ride and what doesn't. If anyone would like to comment or contradict me on the 2018 Honda Forza 300 feel free.

Now I'm curious by you saying you've 60 plus years of riding, so if you started legally riding on
highways at 17, that'd make you 77. Any years round the old homestead on an old Cushman as a boy doesn't count. I used to ride a clapped out BSA Bantam round the field behind my house with some boyhood friends and that counted for nothing in real world riding and experience once I bought my first motorcycle

Finally what's all this outdated and cliched nonsense about drinking warm beer, have you ever been in a British bar, pub or micro brewery.  We're awash with real ale and craft beers and it's served at the same temperature as anywhere else in the world. I don't drink a lot because I'm more of a fruit cider and craft gin fan.

In fact I enjoy most things in moderation, a welcoming news item during lockdown was that one of our major coffee shop chains was now offering smaller Mini cups of 8oz instead of the larger scalding hot American sized cups we've had to buy for years.

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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2020, 09:35:20 PM »

Get stuffed, you presumptuous fool. Should have said this earlier but we have given our rarely posting arrogant a chance. I have ridden thousands of miles with many of the people on the forum and this is maybe the most skilled riders I have ever ridden with. Most of us come from many years of riding every kind of two wheeler and do not suffer fools lightly. Bye bye!
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2020, 09:59:39 PM »

Feel better? I had a nice long response for you but then deleted it. I don't want to clutter up this site by getting into a  online peeing match. People that know me, know how long I've been riding, some of numerous machines I've had, and how I ride. Others know of my racing career, or of my days riding with an outlaw club. Some things I'm proud of, some I'd rather forget. Whether you like it or believe it-I really don't care. Your opinions mean less than nothing to me. As Joan said "Move on and go ride", or take my advice to have a pint and get over it.
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 12:17:01 AM »

Brubaker, take your #@%# BS and keep it on your side of the pond.  The likes of you and your fellow curmudgeon’s have ruined the SilverWing600 site.  It was once a friendly, helpful and enjoyable site back in the early days.  But all of you old PITA members have ruined it for the newer members who have joined over the recent years.  Please disappear into the dark web and don’t come back to this site. We respect each other’s opinions on this forum. 
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 01:12:26 AM »

I have no personal experience with the Silverwing but....

Pretty much every motorcycle and scooter out there can be improved with an upgraded suspension but I'm supposed to believe that the Silverwing comes from the factory with a suspension so fantastic that it can't be improved???

 
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 01:44:19 PM »

Next time, take the Morphous.
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 03:04:15 PM »

My personal experience with the Burgman and new front forks was difference as day and night.   It made the ride infinitely better, it also made me feel like the front end wasn't going to wash out.   I'm not so stupid to not realize a scooter is a scooter not a sports bike but the new shocks made a world of difference when riding especially the twisties. 

There's a plethora of competent riders on this forum.  I could name a list longer than your arm.  I guarantee most have done mods to THEIR bikes to make it more comfortable and provide a sense of confidence.

PS: All scooters are NOT one size fits all.  That's just an absurd comment.   

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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2020, 03:59:22 PM »



Scooters are one size fits all, if the seat height, leg room, ergonomics, overall weight, etc of a particular maxi scooter don't suit you, then you simply don't buy it.


That is one of the most idiotic comments I have ever seen.  

First of all, we don't get the selection of scooters you do.  Second, there are no perfect scooters or motorcycles out there.  You buy what you like and then modify it to make it work for you.  Sometimes its possible to find a bike that doesn't need any mods but that depends on buying a bike that was designed for a person your size and weight.  For some of us that's hard to do.

I currently own two motorcycles and two scooters.  Only one, My Kymco Like 150i has not been modified to fit me better.  
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 11:03:20 AM »



[/quote]

That is one of the most idiotic comments I have ever seen. 


[/quote]

Quote CathyN: 'Brubaker, take your #@%# BS and keep it on your side of the pond.  The likes of you and your fellow curmudgeon’s have ruined the SilverWing600 site.  It was once a friendly, helpful and enjoyable site back in the early days.  But all of you old PITA members have ruined it for the newer members who have joined over the recent years.  Please disappear into the dark web and don’t come back to this site. We respect each other’s opinions on this forum.'

And these are examples of remarks that spoil any forum. Neither you nor klaviator show any respect for Brubaker's opinions; in fact, you insult him by your language and comments.

It should be clear to any sensible person that it is not sensible to buy something which does not suit the purchaser; we are not all able to make alterations to scooters or anything else, come to that.

Take a look in the mirror before slagging people off for expressing their opinions.



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klaviator
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 02:24:52 PM »




And these are examples of remarks that spoil any forum. Neither you nor klaviator show any respect for Brubaker's opinions; in fact, you insult him by your language and comments.

It should be clear to any sensible person that it is not sensible to buy something which does not suit the purchaser; we are not all able to make alterations to scooters or anything else, come to that.

Take a look in the mirror before slagging people off for expressing their opinions.


It seems to me that the lack of respect for others opinions was started by Brubaker when he basically told Minimac that changing fork springs was stupic and unneeded.

Then he dismissed all of us scooter riders in the US with his "we are superior with our massive scooter culture" comment and also implied we just ride 6 months a year.

It is true that Europe, and Asia have a much bigger scooter culture than we do here.  You also have a much bigger selection of scooter than we do.

However, there are those of us here just as serious about our scooters as anyone else on the world.  We may be small in number but we are here.  Many of us ride year round and use two wheels as our primary transportation.  

Then there is your comment:  "It should be clear to any sensible person that it is not sensible to buy something which does not suit the purchaser; we are not all able to make alterations to scooters or anything else, come to that."

So those of us who modify our bikes are not sensible?  If you are happy buying a bike and not modifying it that's great.  Implying that those who modify their bikes are not sensible is insulting and shows a lack of understanding on your part.

My most recent bike is a Kawasaki KLX250 that I bought a few months ago.  As it comes from the factory it does not suit me.  There is no bike available in that class that suits me without modification.  So what Am I supposed to do?   I bought it knowing that after some modifications it would suit me.  3 months later it's almost there but still needs a few mods.  It would be great if I could buy a bike that didn't need modifying but that just wasn't the case here.

With our limited selection of scooters its much hard to find a scooter that does what we want without some mods.  My Like 150i is unmodified except for a tail box.  

My Majesty has seat cushion and I rotated the handlebars for a better fit.  I have not modified the suspension on my Majesty but there is no doubt in my mind it would handle better if I upgraded the suspension.  The fact that I have not chosen to upgrade my suspension doesn't mean I would call someone who did stupid.  

If I had Minimac's mechanical skills I have no doubt all of my bikes would be more heavily modified.  I respect someone like Minimac who has the skills to do the things he does.  



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klaviator
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 02:36:27 PM »

Last month I went to a scooter rally in the North Carolina mountains.  We had around 20 scooters and a couple of motorcycles there.  The majority of them were modified in one way or another to make them more comfortable and/or improve performance. 

I guess these riders just weren't sensible
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2020, 02:37:35 PM »

Well put Klaviator!
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MikeO
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2020, 06:18:27 PM »

Deliberately missing the point.

It seems that one is not allowed to express an opinion unless it agrees with members of certain cliques, unfortunately mostly what this forum is composed of.

I dropped out some time ago since it seemed almost exclusively a vehicle for an annual meeting, something to which quite a few members couldn't possibly take part in.
There were ludicrously something like 100 threads on the same meet before it even happened!

As for Cathy casting aspersions on another scooter forum: that is sheer bad manners and something that we 'on this side of the pond' simply don't do.

The likes of Cathy and klaviator can hardly be described as being innocent of not ruining this forum for some other members.

I can already hear the snidey remarks, possibly 'good riddance', from the cliques when I say I am deleting my account here; I won't be here to read them.

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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2020, 06:28:11 PM »

We were civil until attacked. 99.9 % of the posts here are positive and there were efforts to be diplomatic. But they were disregarded and dismissed. Follow the golden rule...
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2020, 07:39:40 PM »

Mike O- take a look on "your forum" and see how my response to a post asking about Darksiding experience was received by your "well  mannered" members on the other side of the pond, not to mention the constant bashing of us in the US. Don't forget, if it wasn't for the US, you (and your friends) would be posting and speaking in GERMAN. Good bye and good riddance.
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2020, 12:28:28 AM »

Quote
I can already hear the snidey remarks, possibly 'good riddance', from the cliques when I say I am deleting my account here; I won't be here to read them.

This is not an airport, no need to announce your departure. 
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2020, 03:13:08 AM »

This is not an airport, no need to announce your departure. 
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2020, 06:23:27 AM »

Don't forget, if it wasn't for the US, you (and your friends) would be posting and speaking in GERMAN. Good bye and good riddance.

Twice!
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2020, 04:22:39 PM »

Whew, sure glad to see an end to this, now, back to Burger King vs Swing.
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« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2020, 02:12:49 PM »

Thank you!
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2020, 04:42:07 PM »

If all motorcycles & scooters were made for "One size fits all" Then why are so many aftermarket seat, windshield companies out there thriving? Nuff said.

Thank you for your comparison minimac!
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2020, 06:24:09 PM »

I don’t usually haunt the scooter part of Maxi-Scoots, but occasionally I like to read about what’s what.  So I found this thread and found it interesting with some caustic posts and some very good posts.  While not a total outsider, my wife, PeggySuz, owned two 650 Burgmans and her dad own a Silverwing and a 650 Burgman.  I’ve ridden all those bikes, so I do have some insight.  My take on the Silverwing is that the suspension, and in particular, the front suspension, is just adequate, and a little less if you’re a big person.  At 220 pounds, I put the front suspension to the test.  What I discovered was that the stock front suspension was quite soft and the bike suffered from quite a bit of nose dive on application of the brakes.  Installing better fork springs helped immensely with the nose diving as well as overall handling.  The rear suspension while not necessarily to soft, suffered from short travel.  Les, Peggy’s dad, never put better rear shocks on his Silverwing, but he wasn’t a heavy person, so he seemed satisfied with it stock.  Had it been my bike, I’d have put on an improved, aftermarket rear suspension.  As for the 650 Burgman, the stock suspension seemed pretty decent, although, again, a better suspension, front and rear would have improved the ride as well as the already excellent handling.  I think the rear suspension was a bit harsh on rough roads when the bike was loaded for going on a long trip.

All that aside, except for a few snarky comments here and there, Maxi-Scoots is probably the most civilized group, which is why I have been here since 2004. The snarky folks come and go as they usually wear out their welcome or just quietly go away.  But overall, this is the nicest bunch of people.  I miss riding, but my heart is still in it.  Have a great day.
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Greg
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