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Author Topic: An example why every bike that I've seen down while riding has been a Harley  (Read 419 times)
Skutorr
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« on: June 27, 2019, 10:37:39 PM »

Just watch and wait...priceless!

https://youtu.be/pUB2darr5mU
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2019, 02:14:03 AM »

I see two problems. Sport bikes passing on a blind curve and a large amount of gravel and gravel dust in the curve. Bad combination. Not just a Harley issue, glad everyone seems relatively unhurt.
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2019, 02:33:08 AM »

I have to agree jdbrot. I get why your posting this and taking a stereotypical bike bigoted punch at a HD rider. There was gravel, add in a 800 lb. m/c and drop off shoulder. It wasn't funny in least to me. The same thing could have happened you on your 10 year old Tmax. Those poor folks literally could have broken their necks in that get off.  Really sad...
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Expat47
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2019, 05:14:40 AM »

What hole? I saw the gravel/dirt but no hole.
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2019, 12:21:02 PM »

This had nothing to do with the brand of bike involved but I question the riding ability of the two riders who  just rode off the inside of a curve.  I couldn't see exactly what happened but I'm going to guess is that at least part of the issue was aging riders who really shouldn't have been riding 900 pound bikes.  I'll bet if they had been on lighter and easier to handle maxi scooters this might not have happened.

It's also possible they just had target fixation and just rode off the edge.  I was on a ride where someone (on a BMW) just rode off the edge of the road for no apparent reason.  After talking to that rider it was a clear case of target fixation.  He was looking over the edge and trying to avoid it but just rode right off the road.
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klaviator
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2019, 01:03:17 PM »

After some more thought I think the riders were just going too slow.  I was on a ride a while back where a new rider on a small bike crashed just like that.  She was going way too slow on a tight and steep curve and just fell over to the inside.  Luckily there was no  dropoff like in this video.  In the video they were going really slow.  Just rolling off the throttle a bit would cause the bikes to fall in like that.  Also, it appears that it wasn't just a curve, it was pretty steep uphill.

No, this crash wasn't funny but there are some lessons to be learned from it. 
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jdbrot
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2019, 06:20:00 PM »

Looks like the Harley's slowed for the curve and gravel and could not accelerate since the passing sport bikes were in the path where the Harley's needed to go. Just bad all around.
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2019, 08:07:06 PM »

The sport bikes didn't pass until after they ran off the road.  I think the riders were going too slow, possibly the first one stalled it.  On the curve before the bridge the Harley's slowed way down which makes me believe they were not experienced at riding twisty mountain roads.  I don't see that the sportbikes had anything to do with this  accident.

People dropping heavy bikes on hills and tight curves happens a lot.  Just sit and watch the  Deal's Gap resort and you will see a bunch of riders do it.  I think this was all a matter of not enough riding skill.  Maybe the riders were from Florida or other flat state and weren't used to hills or curves.
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EZMark
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2019, 08:42:29 PM »

I was on a ride where someone (on a BMW) just rode off the edge of the road for no apparent reason.

I believe the same thing happened with a very experienced rider on a Yamaha.
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EZMark
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 08:43:48 PM »

For the record, I've seen plenty of guys in the ditch on sportbikes in the Deal's Gap area.
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klaviator
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2019, 10:13:00 PM »

For the record, I've seen plenty of guys in the ditch on sportbikes in the Deal's Gap area.

That is very true but they generally go too fast and ride off the outside of the curve.
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2019, 04:16:10 AM »

I've seen more sport bikes, scooters and cruisers fall off the inside of a sharp climbing turn, especially if there is a crown to the road and it tilts to the side.
The dynamics are simple. As the bike slows, gravity takes over and seems to "pull" the bike to the inside of the turn. The rider panics and hits the brakes or slows down even more, increasing the problem. The trick is to add power to "lift" the bike up and around the corner. Seems counter-intuitive, but that is something that needs to be trained for and practiced. These "parking-lot riding schools" have nice safe flat areas to practice, but that doesn't really prepare someone for real road dynamics.
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Expat47
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2019, 05:34:35 AM »

These "parking-lot riding schools" have nice safe flat areas to practice, but that doesn't really prepare someone for real road dynamics.

Over here that slap a big red [L] on the back of the bike, hang an "instructor" (sans helmet usually) off the back seat and go play in traffic!

Unfortunately, the testing site is in our area of town (sub-division) and we get to dodge these speed bumps.
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klaviator
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2019, 04:26:19 PM »

I've seen more sport bikes, scooters and cruisers fall off the inside of a sharp climbing turn, especially if there is a crown to the road and it tilts to the side.
The dynamics are simple. As the bike slows, gravity takes over and seems to "pull" the bike to the inside of the turn. The rider panics and hits the brakes or slows down even more, increasing the problem. The trick is to add power to "lift" the bike up and around the corner. Seems counter-intuitive, but that is something that needs to be trained for and practiced. These "parking-lot riding schools" have nice safe flat areas to practice, but that doesn't really prepare someone for real road dynamics.

In my 39 years of riding I can only remember one accident on inside the curve crash like that.  Recently a gal on a light dual sport bike took a curve like that too slow, stalled the engine and fell to the inside of the curve.  Luckily she didn't hurt herself or her bike and continued the ride. 

Maybe the reason I haven't seen that kind of crash much is because I typically ride with fairly sporty riders who are far more likely to go off the outside of a curve.  If the riders in this crash had just carried a little more speed through the curve they would have been just fine.
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2019, 08:36:33 PM »

For these folks ... too much motorcycle, too little know-how, poor decision making.  A bad recipe.

Glad they weren't seriously hurt.  The "cliff" in the vid's title is a little overstated.
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Skutorr
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2019, 10:27:49 PM »

I didn't say it was a design flaw in the Harleys that led to the accident, but something I've seen way to often; Harley riders having trouble negotiating tougher, more challenging roads. I've seen a few Harley riders that I don't think I could keep up with on a twisty course, they were that good and knew their bikes that well. That said, when you put less-experienced, occasional riders on a bike THAT BIG, where they have not explored the full range of handling characteristics and put them in a strange situation, bad things happen. Fortunately, they were wearing more protective gear than the typical Harley Pie Tin Hat and Safety Tank Top...
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