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Author Topic: Do you trust DOT?  (Read 1384 times)
Maggie
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« on: June 19, 2019, 02:09:06 PM »

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/355223/dot-helmet-testing-dangerously-inadequate/
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 03:08:53 PM »

Sometime back in the 90s Motorcyclist magazine tested a bunch of helmets.  The DOT only helmets did better than the high end Snell rated helmets.  Even before that back in the 80s I was working on my Mechanical Engineering degree.  I had a lab class where we did helmet testing.  Even back then the professor pointed out some issues with Snell's standards.

Are there some sub standard DOT helmets out there?   Probably but I'm fine with a DOT only helmet although I'd prefer an ECE rating as well.  I couldn't care less about Snell.  I won't pay an extra cent just for the Snell rating.

BTW, Snell never admitted their old standards had some flaws however they did change them after it became helmet makers could no longer meet both Snell and ECE standards at the same time.

Ultimately what is important is that you wear a helmet.  The difference between a cheap helmet and no helmet is much greater than the difference between a cheap helmet and an expensive one. 
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Maggie
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 03:38:36 PM »

Truth!
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Skutorr
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 11:28:51 PM »

HERE is the best place to find helmet tests and ratings...

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/


Here is the test for my SHOEI QWEST:

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/shoei-qwest/

"For every helmet model, we run 32 impact tests on seven helmets across a range of sizes to assess how well each helmet could protect the brain in the event of a crash.

The ratings are based upon the test results of helmets SHARP has independently purchased from retail outlets. This ensure our ratings accurately reflect the safety performance of helmets that are on sale in the UK."
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2019, 05:36:37 AM »

The Nolan I wore/wear have 4 stars but my new Givi none? Hmmm... not tested?
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2019, 08:49:14 AM »

I don't know about the new Snell test, but the original version had a chemical test.
They'd expose the helmets to various chemicals to soften them up, then they'd fail the test.
Rigged results in my opinion.
Bottom line is, any helmet is better than no helmet.
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klaviator
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2019, 02:41:39 PM »

Another reason I don't trust Snell is that they claim that "dwell time" or the length of time one is exposed to the G forces is not important when it is a well known fact that it is. 

Although I don't like Snell it wouldn't keep me from buying a Snell rated helmet since the helmet also meets DOT standards. 

One reason I am not likely to buy a Snell helmet is there are almost no modular helmets that have the Snell rating.  Snell makes it extremely difficult for modular helmet to meet it's standards yet plenty of open face helmets have the Snell rating.  Where's the logic in that?  While a Modular helmet isn't as safe as a full face it certainly offers more protection than an open face helmet.  Even the Shoei Neotec doesn't have a Snell rating.

I have also read that Helmets with internal sun visor won't pass Snell standards.  I don't know how true that is.

My preference is modular helmets with an internal sun visor.  I don't think it is possible to get a Snell rated helmet with those features at this time.
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Maggie
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 02:45:45 PM »

Good information, all!  Nice for people to see well informed alternative opinions.
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scooterwolf
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 06:17:25 PM »

I wear a GMax helmet, but it doesn't seem to be on the UK test list. I'm guessing it's not sold there. Regardless, I've been happy with it.

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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 08:22:56 PM »

I crash tested my GMAX 54s. Immediately bought another. Held together and protected my head and face. Did not even feel the impact, just saw the asphalt and gravel as I slid face down. Don't recommend this but I know my head is protected.
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2019, 01:31:09 AM »

 I read the <s>ENTIRE</s> article ... struck me as a hollow, filler piece.  Certainly did not support the headline, "DOT Helmet Testing: Dangerously Inadequate".  "That is to say, nonexistent" in smaller print below does not garner a pass as most folks will take a headline like that to mean testing to DOT standards.  "Cute" does not belong in an article on helmet safety. 

Just another bit of pseudo journalism.

<s> = the sarcasm tag
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2019, 02:50:50 AM »

Spyderist: I couldn't agree more. And a big thanks for making the stickers! I'm sorry you and the lovely missus can't make the meet up, but I'll catch you both at some point.
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2019, 04:14:45 AM »

Spyderist: I couldn't agree more. And a big thanks for making the stickers! I'm sorry you and the lovely missus can't make the meet up, but I'll catch you both at some point.

You're welcome.

Yep, we're sorry to miss as well but the traveling we were going to have to do to almost be two places at once was just getting too cumbersome, and probably would have dampened our enjoyment at both events.

Also, I haven't forgotten about the logo shirts that you and John were interested in, but I wasn't really super pleased with the digitizing* we had done to create it.  Now Jan has a better embroidery machine and I've software to do digitizing.  There's a fairly steep learning curve but I'm getting there.  Lots of projects (embroidery and otherwise) and every time I think I've got it, I learn something new and start tweaking again.  One of these days ...

* Digitizing - modern embroidery machines work from a stitching file, basically a file of commands that tell it what, where, and how to stitch.  Digitizing means working from a graphic (or just freehand), building a stitching file.  In "ancient times" that was done manually.  Nowadays it generally means using software that varies from very simple to very powerful, but basically one "draws" stitch objects on the computer and the software builds the required stitch file.
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2019, 01:42:47 PM »

Do I trust the DOT? Don't care as a helmet worn is better than none in my view. Australian motorists are heavily policed regardless of how many wheels you have. The police view it seems is that its the law to have a complying helmet.

I've been in a riding group where 2 riders (in separate) off road rides came off and required ambulance transport. In the first instance Rob (coz that's his real name) came off at appx 40kph while riding on the beach. A 4x4 ambulance turned up escorted by the police, the medics attended to Rob while the Police confiscated his helmet. When we asked for it back we were informed that it would be inspected for compliance to Australian Standard 1698 (AS1698), ECE22.05 or a SNELL rating, if the helmet was not endorsed to either standard then the costof  Rob's medical treatment would be his responsibility and not covered by CTP.

The second incident happened on one of the remotest tracks in outback Western Australia appx 270km north of the frontier town of Warburton. Ben came off big time and shattered some vertebrae in his back. The Police and Ambo's turned up in their 4x4's taking 7 hours to get to us (sat phone used to call them) - same deal, Medics to Ben and police took his helmet for compliance inspection.

Off topic - we had been riding for 3 days in some really remote areas eating cans of muck and dry 2 min noodles, we were all low on food, fuel and water when the crash occurred and critically low of water after the 7hr wait. Never-the-less the second thing the police wanted after the helmet was our licenses, registration and a breath test for alcohol - something we all would have loved to have failed at that point!

PS Bens XR400 is still out there if anyone wants to go pick it up.


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