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Author Topic: Tactical Contact  (Read 386 times)
Maggie
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« on: November 23, 2018, 08:04:24 PM »

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/gotcha-dramatic-footage-reveals-met-polices-new-hardline-war-on-londons-violent-moped-gangs-a3998141.html?fbclid=IwAR0cVuKtaNELpyvfJ18SzGn8Qf76L5LX6XJ4y664hnUlaXllFJQGhCnAZN0
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 08:19:19 PM »

Darn ScooterTrash.... scooter
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 03:27:22 AM »

Skorpion, aka, Thug Thumpers
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 03:40:33 AM »

Way over due!!! (IMHO)
It had become known that if you used a scooter or stole a scooter in London, then you were exempt from the law.
The unfortunate part is that there will be a few folks just feeling their oats that get hit and will suffer the consequences.
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 07:30:47 AM »

Supposedly educated wordsmiths and not a peddle in sight!
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 06:59:06 PM »

Great program.  Looks like they're resorting to whatever works to try and get those thugs off the streets.  Yup, some may get hurt, but that's just a "perk" of the game.  Too bad for them that it's a negative perk, but oh well, if you're gonna dance, you gotta pay the band.  Looks like the London police are exacting payment.
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 06:58:57 PM »

Sorry, but I have to disagree with many of the comments above. Having the police intentionally damage a motorcycle and injure the rider/passenger is not the way to stop motorcycle theft.  If it is not acceptable for a civilian to intentionally run into a motorcycle, it is not acceptable for the police to do it either. This looks like sanctioned police brutality to me. Figure out why the thefts are occurring and work to remedy those issues.
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CelticCross
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 07:31:37 PM »

  This looks like sanctioned police brutality to me. Figure out why the thefts are occurring and work to remedy those issues.

Yep, I absolutely sanction this police action.     Why are the thefts occuring ?  Simple, the perpertrators up until now have been commiting crimes knowing there will be no redress from the police, they knew full well if they rode in a manner that endangered the public they would not be followed, they knew full well if they removed their crash helmet they would not be chased.  This is a game changer, knock the f***wits off (preferably putting them in hospital) & the 'message' will soon get around
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 11:36:58 PM »

Sorry, but I have to disagree with many of the comments above. Having the police intentionally damage a motorcycle and injure the rider/passenger is not the way to stop motorcycle theft.  If it is not acceptable for a civilian to intentionally run into a motorcycle, it is not acceptable for the police to do it either. This looks like sanctioned police brutality to me. Figure out why the thefts are occurring and work to remedy those issues.

Just as consideration and not trying to argue with you. How would you feel it was one of your own family hurt or murdered then the culprit left on a scooter? The police tell you they can't do anything because they aren't allowed to pursue scooters because the criminal or his scooter may be injured. And as far as the reason for the scooter crimes, it has already been determined that they more than tripled(edit: my error. According to reports scooter crimes has escalated 30 fold in five years, not 3) and escalated to violence/murder due to the non pursuit policy.

As I replied earlier, I can see this getting out of hand also, the same as you stated. The alternate question (from my point of view) is what is a civil alternative?
As I've not had this happen, it is easy to have a civil conversation. BUT had one of my own family been injured/murdered, I'd be at the point of biting nails at your comment.

Ref for my edit above: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/gotcha-dramatic-footage-reveals-met-polices-new-hardline-war-on-londons-violent-moped-gangs-a3998141.html?fbclid=IwAR0cVuKtaNELpyvfJ18SzGn8Qf76L5LX6XJ4y664hnUlaXllFJQGhCnAZN0
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jdbrot
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 12:15:49 AM »

The London police have one of the best street surveillance systems in the world. Each of the pursued vehicles was identified before contact was made. This is a response to brutal gangs and violent crimes.
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 02:12:28 AM »

Sorry, I can't condone the police action. There is no theft worth the possibility of taking a life for. This is just giving the Police a license to kill.
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 03:03:01 AM »

Sorry, I can't condone the police action. There is no theft worth the possibility of taking a life for. This is just giving the Police a license to kill.

I agree with your statement. Unfortunately, it isn't just theft. As I stated above, the groups have escalated to murder. Unless you mean taking of life is just theft?
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2018, 04:42:21 AM »

I don't have a big issue with this, at least not int he situations they specify.  The criminals are getting plenty of warning that this is a possibility if they run on a bike or scooter.

Now if this becomes the norm for any kind of infraction on a bike - then it's a problem.
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CelticCross
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2018, 08:38:53 PM »

Sorry, I can't condone the police action. There is no theft worth the possibility of taking a life for. This is just giving the Police a license to kill.

I agree with your statement. Unfortunately, it isn't just theft. As I stated above, the groups have escalated to murder. Unless you mean taking of life is just theft?

Sorry Jed, but one wrong does not justify a second wrong. I said I thought it was wrong for the police to ram a motorcycle to apprehend a motorcycle thief. The use of a motorcycle as a getaway vehicle is a totally different issue so you need to separate your arguments. However, I’m against the use of excessive force by the police department no matter what the initiating factor(s) is/are.
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jdbrot
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2018, 09:16:59 PM »

They did not steal the motorcycle, they committed serious crimes. The scooter was the get away vehicle.
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CelticCross
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 09:18:41 PM »

When trying to apprehend a suspected killer, bumping a motorcycle to stop it could be justified, provided it is not at high speed.
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 09:23:21 PM »

Sadly some criminals have no problem hurting or killing people for small material gains. The police seem to have figured a way to stop them without causing major bodily harm. Every one of the folks knocked off the bikes seemed quite able to get up and try to run.
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 10:33:18 PM »

The article said, "Police say it is just one of a range of new measures, called Operation Venice, to tackle gangs who steal mopeds and use them to rob pedestrians of phones and other valuables." Sorry, I can't see running over a scooter rider and possibly killing them just because they stole a phone. Don't get me wrong, they should be punished, but this seems a little extreme.
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 02:18:49 AM »

It does not appear to be high speed chases occurring in the videos and they are not running them over. I'm pretty
sure they have defined procedures for stopping the bike riders. I don't think they just run into them any way they
can so I don't think they are just arbitrarily applying the technique... Extreme measures are going to need extreme
consideration.

The police over here in the US use the PIT (Pursuit Intervention Technique) maneuver here to stop cars and there
are protocols and procedures for that. Dash cams are going to show the speed and actions of the police vehicle.
  
Apparently they have to follow protocols on when they may be authorized to use certain procedures... I'm pretty sure
they are not allowed to just knock over every bike rider that happens to piss them off... They would need good reason
to do so and the permission to do it at that time.

I think the people over there are allowed to have a voice in how things are done (or not allowed)... We have that here.
If the public at large wants something done to remedy a situation and they ask for and get a method they approve of,
then civil order should be the eventual result. If enough don't approve or have other ideas for a solution, then it doesn't
change until something else is worked out.

Desperate times call for desperate measures on occasion.


Addendum:
I made my comments before reading the text article below the video. Didn't realize there was more to it than just the
video until I went back to watch it again and discovered the rest of it. Ends up I was pretty much right about it.

Most people, I believe, innately know that dangerous behavior could have severe consequences. Armed bank robbery
perpetrators  for instance, know that there is a high risk of being shot by bank security (if present) or by pursuing police.
There are some that will still attempt to rob banks in spite of that... but damn fewer than there would be without the
disincentive of security guards and/or the pursuit by police. The extreme rise in the crime rate came because of the old
policy of "no high speed chase or pursuit of non-helmeted riders". I expect the corollary of a reduction of crime by bike
riders will follow with the implementation of their new "Tactical Contact" policy. Word gets around about such things.
 
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 11:56:48 AM »

The London police have one of the best street surveillance systems in the world. Each of the pursued vehicles was identified before contact was made. This is a response to brutal gangs and violent crimes.

Well said bud .    Not sure how much of our 'news' gets over to you, but here is a solitary example of why such police tactics are needed ...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43373719
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 09:41:50 PM »

Sometimes the police aren't even needed.  Here's an interesting story of an attempted scooter-jacking here in the U. S.  https://advrider.com/f/threads/attempted-scooter-jacking.1352935/
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