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Author Topic: And There is One More Thing  (Read 554 times)
Dan
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« on: May 29, 2018, 11:29:25 PM »

Yesterday I purchased a new pair of Riding Jeans.  These are cheaper than my Alpinestars and brand called Street and Steel (dumb name) Oakland Jeans.  They were only $100.  They got a pretty decent review at Revzilla, you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ootcBrlojnw

I like them because I'm a rather skinny lad and most jeans are kind of boxy and loose on me.  Not bad for normal street jeans but for riding jeans I like the armor to stay in place.  These jeans have narrow legs but not super skinny or to Euro-ish.  They have generous amounts of aramid (same as kevlar essentially) as you can see here:



The fabric has some kind of stretch material baked in which I don't really care for but it is comfortable because of it and helps with fit, especially when seated on a bike.  They only have knee armor and no pocket for hip armor, that kinda bugs me but there are some riding shorts that have hip and tail bone armor that I may pick up.

If anything unusual comes up during ownership I'll let everyone know.
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 01:09:02 AM »

I've done a lot of riding in Kevlar jeans and would always feel OK about it.  Lately my go to riding pants have been BMW Santiago pants, mostly because they are the only riding pants that come close to fitting.  I'd bought them used from a guy on ADVrider for $75.00.  I'm seriously considering Bahn-Armor. I've heard some good things about it and it makes good sense.  I just don't know how I'd feel about wearing it.  I do have the feeling that Kevlar jeans over Bahn Armor would be very protective and not much warmer then without the armor.  Also I have unusual leg length and knee height.  Knee armor never seems to be in the right place.  The Bahn-Armor system is using a Lycra type synthetic to hold the armor where it belongs, so that if you went down the knee armor will be at the knee.
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 03:39:52 AM »

I have a pair of riding jeans with Kevlar.  Four years ago I went down going about 15-20mph in the city avoiding a car coming back into traffic.  I got a small hole in the denim at the knee.  The Kevlar protected my knee giving me a rug like burn the size of a quarter. It scabbed over 4 weeks later I got a staff infection.  Had to have surgery to clean it out. Had a wound vac on for 11 days. I now only were pants with knee, hip, shin armor.  I do have Bohn armor for under my riding jeans.  They do keep the armor in place.
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Dan
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 04:41:52 PM »

Also I have unusual leg length and knee height.  Knee armor never seems to be in the right place. 

Many of the riding jeans have adjustable knee armor, my Alpinestars do and it makes a difference for getting a good fit.

I have a pair of riding jeans with Kevlar.  Four years ago I went down going about 15-20mph in the city avoiding a car coming back into traffic.  I now only were pants with knee, hip, shin armor.  I do have Bohn armor for under my riding jeans.  They do keep the armor in place.

I agree, I wouldn't buy riding jeans without a decent kevlar/aramid shell and certified armor.  The inexpensive Oakland's I purchased have knee armor only but it's fitment is spot on for my size.  They actually fit better than my Alpinestars but I've lost a small amount of weight since I purchased those.  To protect myself better I may get some riding armor for my hips and tailbone.

I've been tempted to by Bohn riding armor for years but have read mixed reviews from other riders.
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 05:32:52 PM »

I know I am probably in the "minority" on this subject but "body armor"? I just don't get it. I have used body armor in the past and frankly the discomfort level is not acceptable for me. I am not a road warrior riding on the ragged edge of tire adhesion every time I ride so I just don't feel the need to armor myself every time I go out for a pleasure ride....as if anticipating a crash. Can someone help me understand why you feel the need to wear a suit of armor when you go riding?
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 05:46:48 PM »

Go down once and you will appreciate the need for armor. Glad I was wearing mine. No bruises or road rash, won't prevent broken bones but will lessen the injury. Try D3O armor for comfort and protection. It works. Most accidents in our group over the years have been caused by road conditions or careless other drivers hitting us.
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Maggie
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 06:00:40 PM »

I have a couple of Bilt Kevlar lined jeans.   They helped with abrasions when I went down in Memphis.
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 06:02:32 PM »

The GF went down while learning to ride and came away with only minor bruises because I had her in riding gear with armor.  Yes, it sometimes sucks to wear on hot days, but the added peace of mind is worth the discomfort to me and to her.  We wear it every ride.
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 07:24:50 PM »

I applaud all who ride ATGATT. I know that I should but... Still, every time I hear about a motorcycle accident, I want to know what safety gear was being worn at the time and if the life of the rider/passenger were saved as a result. Whatever your preference, ride safe and enjoy.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2018, 08:30:41 PM »

Well I went 40 years between accidents and very happy I had my gear on. Must have gotten smarter or something. Used to ride in tshirts and jeans but always wore a helmet
 Very happy that mesh clothing and lightweight armor is available and cheap.
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 09:06:50 PM »

While I know that wearing all the gear is the smart thing to do, it's not always practical.  If I'm just commuting around town I tend to compromise.  I always wear a helmet (modular), armored jacket, gloves and over the ankle boots of some kind.  I often cheat and just wear jeans or work pants.  When going for a longer ride I wear full gear.  I know the risks and take my chances.  Let's face we all do it to some extent unless we wear top of the line racing leathers all the time.  Anything less is a compromise.  We all have to make our own decisions on how much we are willing to compromise safety for comfort and practicality.

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Clampett
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 09:32:18 PM »

I know I am probably in the "minority" on this subject but "body armor"? I just don't get it. I have used body armor in the past and frankly the discomfort level is not acceptable for me. I am not a road warrior riding on the ragged edge of tire adhesion every time I ride so I just don't feel the need to armor myself every time I go out for a pleasure ride....as if anticipating a crash. Can someone help me understand why you feel the need to wear a suit of armor when you go riding?

It's like experiencing sex, drinking, kidney stones, etc..... Those that have experienced the need for armor have no reference to discuss it with those that have not experienced the need for it. There are then 2 frames of reference for those that experienced it: Those that had it when and those that didn't when they had the experience.

My own take here: The pain of seeing a loved one who experienced the need and didn't have it is much more intense than the self experience as you must live with that decision afterwards regardless of their outcome.

Having made my statement, I do believe that each person should have the choice once they are an adult. I do not believe you should be compelled to live with my choice(s).
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 10:55:15 PM »

Can someone help me understand why you feel the need to wear a suit of armor when you go riding?

A good question, and one worthy of some (hopefully) thoughtful answers.

At a very basic level, at least for me, my answer to your question is... my aversion to pain increases with age. But since I really like riding motorcycles, protection against injury falls somewhere between avoiding the activity altogether and taking measures to mitigate its potentially negative effects.

Another reason comes from my choice of motorcycle, one of which is a 'naked' Yamaha FZ-09. A frequent comment is that I experience collisions on just about every ride. The FZ-09 has no generally protective hardware (i.e. fairing, windscreen) between me and a multitude of bugs, birds, pebbles, debris, etc. periodically striking every piece of protective gear. Although my Yamaha Morphous provides comparatively more protection, gear is often my first and only line of defense.

Also, I sunburn more easily than preferred. Even on the hottest, sunniest days, I wear mesh riding gear, with armor in appropriate places, and ensure as much skin as possible is covered. Perhaps this is a bit different concept of armor, but sunburn hurts, too. So I have a personal interest in protecting against it, and the 'threat' exists on most daytime rides.

Gear, even a suit of armor, won't guarantee safety. But, in the absence of guarantees, lowering the likelihood of a negative outcome appeals to me. The question was related to gear (actually a suit of armor), but I could go on and on about rider skill training some other time.
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 10:59:17 PM »

I'm mostly there with Clampett, but sometimes I wonder whether the person that wants to ride with none of the gear all of the time should be required to carry proof of their health insurance.  This is just so that if they do crash I won't have to pay for the medical care that the gear would have prevented.
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 01:19:37 AM »

Your points are all thought provoking. Thank you for your posts one and all.
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msgtphil
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2018, 04:43:46 PM »

I know I am probably in the "minority" on this subject but "body armor"? I just don't get it. I have used body armor in the past and frankly the discomfort level is not acceptable for me. I am not a road warrior riding on the ragged edge of tire adhesion every time I ride so I just don't feel the need to armor myself every time I go out for a pleasure ride....as if anticipating a crash. Can someone help me understand why you feel the need to wear a suit of armor when you go riding?

I have no good answer for you mainly because I suffer from 'Wiggly Road Syndrome'. When a curve comes into view WRS invokes an involuntary altered state of consciousness. Those afflicted with WRS confronted with any series of curves enter a state similar to Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities) believing they are someone able to negotiate the series of curves at a rate far exceeding their abilities. Compounding the WRS induced recklessness the Kwang Yang X-5, every reviewer has concluded, is incapable of negotiating any curve without breaking in half or falling over so any armor that protects me from myself is advisable. On the other hand the relatively few times I have fallen over I was just peacefully riding along tending to business and in an instant wondering why I was on the ground or was rapidly approaching pavement. Deer, dogs and cars bring the careful to as sudden a stop as the careless, a piece of lumber, spill of anti-freeze or oil in just the wrong spot also.
   
   Not wearing armor isn't that far removed from not wearing a helmet, most of the time you can get by without it but when you don't it hurts. It's OK I play the odds, rarely wear armored pants. Previously, I often rode helmetless, in sleeveless t-shirt, jeans, sneakers without injury, as I said most of the time you can get away with it. I'm not going to preach wearing armor, only consider whether unnecessary or rationalizing a playing the odds you can get by without it. It's OK all riders are betting against the line, the rest is just degrees of playing the odds. 
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Dan
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 05:04:09 PM »

Such great responses from everyone, thanks so much for adding to this conversation.

When I started riding my first bike, a beautiful yellow Honda Reflex my brother told me all I needed was a bicycle helmet because it was just a scooter.  Even I wasn't naive enough to believe that.  My first "full" set of gear was a half helmet, mesh jacket, short gloves, high top sneakers and blue jeans.  Of that original set the only thing I have left are my Icon Pursuit gloves because they are just so dang good looking and comfortable but they aren't really good gloves.  These days it's another story, my current "full" set up is comprised of a full face helmet, textile jacket with armor on the shoulders, elbows, back and chest, kevlar lined riding jeans with knee and hip armor, short and gauntlet gloves, also armored an in particular on the outer palm, ear plugs and finally over the shin riding boots.  I even wear motorcycle specific socks for no real reason.  I can't really think of anytime I when I ride without wearing the full set, even running around town.

Try D3O armor for comfort and protection. It works.

This armor is amazing, it's so thin but incredibly functional.  I'm glad you mentioned it.

I always wear a helmet (modular), armored jacket, gloves and over the ankle boots of some kind.  I often cheat and just wear jeans or work pants.

Klaviator, check out some of the newest riding jeans, normal jeans will shred in seconds.  The Street and Steel Oaklands I bought aren't expensive and will be far better than regular jeans, plus they are quite comfortable.

Compounding the WRS induced recklessness the Kwang Yang X-5, every reviewer has concluded, is incapable of negotiating any curve without breaking in half or falling over so any armor that protects me from myself is advisable.   

The ever flexible chassis of the Xciting, thanks for the great story, Phil.  Nobody puts together a post quite like you!  :D

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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 05:32:41 PM »

If I had foreknowledge of when and if Iwas going to have an "off", I'd be armored to the teeth. I don't know of anyone that plans on going down, but it happens. What I find amusing is that those that ride minimally protected in the city or commuting, but get decked out for riding the highways. That just seems backwards to statistics.
My own kevlar Cortech cargo pants have hidden zippers around the legs,to convert to shorts. For me, it's the best of both worlds!
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 06:02:15 PM »

Riding in the city is probably more dangerous than highway riding.  The reason I compromise some for riding around town is that those rides tend to be short and I'm going to do something else making wearing gear more of a hassle.  When I go for a longer ride I generally avoid spending much time on highways.  I prefer twisty back roads and I'm still a sport bike rider at heart even if I have slowed a bit in my old age.  I tend to dress with more protective gear for those rides because they are much longer and I feel like I'm more at risk. 

Someone mentioned Kevlar jeans.  I do have several pairs of Kevlar reinforced pants.  Sometime I wear them around town but if I'll be hiking I don't wear them.  If I'm going to work I don't want to change pants when I get there.  If it's cold I do have some Overpants with knee armor that are easy on and off so I wear those over whatever pants I'm wearing.  Sometimes I wear regular jeans just because I'm lazy and don't want to change.  Yes I may regret that someday but I tend to ride 2-3 times a day, sometimes more so I don't always take the time to dress the way I should. 
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 06:16:07 PM »

I sometimes wear MX knee and shin guards under regular pants, easy to remove and I figured something is better than nothing.
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2018, 02:23:07 AM »

I applaud all who ride ATGATT. I know that I should but... Still, every time I hear about a motorcycle accident, I want to know what safety gear was being worn at the time and if the life of the rider/passenger were saved as a result. Whatever your preference, ride safe and enjoy.

I don't wear it all the time.... I know I should I just don't.
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2018, 03:00:01 AM »

Everything all of you have said makes perfect sense. Discomfort has to be weighed against the protection factor. Any intelligent individual will probably opt for the protection. I am going to reevaluate my stance on "armored suits" or some variation of such. Thank all of you for taking the time to post your opinions, experience, and advice on this subject. It is possible that your posts may, in the long run, play a role in saving my skin.
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2018, 06:41:31 AM »

As much as we don't know when if ever we will have a get off, it's still an undeniable truth that the more time spent in the saddle the greater the odds become that you will experience a get off.  So for me it's a no brain decision to be ATGATT.  I put on an incredible amount of miles and this puts me more at risk.  In addition to that risk until the last year I lived for finding the most challenging roads and riding them at 110 percent of what my skills allowed for and that put me even more at risk.  I bet that I'm one of if not the only forum member that's made both wheels leave the ground on a Burgman 650 and brought it down safely.  NEVER TRYING THAT AGAIN!

At least now I've kind of reconciled the part about going to very challenging roads and riding them at 110 percent of my abilities.  I've just decided that I'm too old and brittle for this and I try to hold back to maybe 80 to 90 percent of my abilities.  Some of this is also that some very skilled and experienced riders have taught me that there is a rhythm to riding challenging roads where you are going less fast, but braking-slowing less and doing them faster with less risk.    But still in the last 1.5 seasons I've put on around 65,000 miles.  This includes maybe 30 percent city traffic, 30 percent interstate to get to good riding, and thirty percent country challenging roads.

In the last two years which is probably about 100,000 miles I've only had one incident and it was totally unavoidable.  I was at a red light and a moron rear ended my TMAX.  I guess if I think hard I also slid out the DN-01 thanks to a drunk driver on the wrong side of the road on KY 36 out east of Cynthiana, KY.  In both of these I completely escaped injury.  After the DN-01 incident I just picked up the bike climbed back on and rode off.  I was so lucky that there was also almost no damage to the bike (saved by the evil top case).

Some of you may tell me that it's lack of skills or judgment on my part.  I'll admit to some judgment issues in the past.  On the other hand while there are more skilled riders then I am, I'm not unskilled.  Without naming names I can safely say that there are a couple of riders that I've met at the rallies that are hands down more skilled then I am, on the other hand I've met many riders that are less skilled then I am.  For the most part I think that most riders will have issues if they spend that much time in the saddle.

So as much as I agree that gear is the decision of each rider, I also think that you'd have a hard time finding an  IBA rider that rides without ATGATT.  They just know that they will have their number come up.
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