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Author Topic: Driverless/Assisted Driving Vehicles -- Seeing Motorcycles?  (Read 346 times)
Steve_YYZ
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« on: April 08, 2018, 08:48:33 PM »

I was reading on the Revzilla website and came across this interesting series of articles. Kinda gets you to thinking when you're a two-wheeled rider. Just what and home much of you does the technology see?

Don't trust assisted-driving systems to see motorcyclists.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/study-dont-trust-assisted-driving-systems-to-see-motorcyclists

Highly-automated vehicles and motorcycles, Part I.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/highly-automated-vehicles-and-motorcycles-part-one

Highly-automated vehicles and motorcycles, Part II.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/highly-automated-vehicles-and-motorcycles-part-two

Highly-automated vehicle and motorcycles -- Tech moves faster than regulations.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/highly-automated-vehicles-and-motorcycles-tech-moves-faster-than-regulations
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jdbrot
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 01:30:30 PM »

I have no faith in any of the current systems. Vehicles with "active" drivers regularly fail to see us and the current tech is too dependent on road markings rather than actual AI.
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scooterwolf
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 02:05:14 PM »

I agree. It’s a fallacy to call it a driverless system if it requires a driver to watch the road, and to have a hand on the wheel. This is just regulating the driver to the status of a Driving  Instructor in a passenger seat ready to pounce on the brake, or to grab the wheel away from a student.

The technology is far from ready, and requires years more of testing if people are getting injured  and killed.

- Wolf
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Steve_YYZ
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 03:03:25 PM »

.......This is just regulating the driver to the status of a Driving  Instructor in a passenger seat ready to pounce on the brake, or to grab the wheel away from a student.

No, it's even worse than that. All these "driver assist" packages really allow the driver to pay even LESS attention to their driving, thereby leaving more time to play with their phones, text, email, or otherwise do something besides driving safely. Their eyes sure won't be on the road ahead as much.
Hell, Subaru, with their EyeSight Driver Assistance System has even gone so far as to incorporate something they call "Lead Vehicle Start Alert" which they advertise as this.... "If the vehicle in front of you has moved and the driver doesn't react within several seconds the Lead Vehicle Start Alert will sound." So the idiots sitting at a red light don't even have to bother looking up occasionally (from their phones) because the car is "watching" the traffic ahead for them. When the system beeps, it's time to nail the gas and away you go. I guess it will be too bad if the "system" doesn't see you stopped on your motorcycle and reacts to the car ahead of you moving and the idiot nails the gas behind you.

Yup, not looking forward at all to this technology being in use on public roads.
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jdbrot
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 04:20:40 PM »

The emergency braking functions and parking assist seem OK but generally these appear to be useful in low speed situations
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alloo
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 06:52:25 PM »

I have less faith in Human operators.
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CelticCross
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »

I believe that when fully implemented, autonomous vehicles will improve the life of millions of folks, allowing them to take charge for their own transportation needs, and will prove to be a safer form of transportation than what we rely on today. That’s my opinion - I could be wrong.
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 01:45:48 AM »

It could be but not in the current form. The systems do not respond accurately to the incredible number of variables on today's roadways. Many states still have lots of one lane or gravel two way roads. None of them could be used with an autonomous vehicle today.
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CelticCross
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 06:38:03 PM »

Humans donít always respond accurately to the incredible number of variables on todayís roadways either. Yet, we are still allowed to operate motor vehicles with the hope/expectation that we are going to reach our destination without harm to us or cause problems for others. And there is a thriving industry to deal with the oops from tow trucks to auto parts to body shops to salvage yards. Fortunately, the automotive industry doesnít implement features/components of automation until they believe they have been extensively researched and tested (sensors, backup cameras, parallel parking, etc.) and they are ready for production vehicles. People are not perfect - we make mistakes everyday. Squawdoosh happens. It happens to non-automation components and it will happen to components used for automation. Problems will be solved and new problems will crop up. The industry may need to do a full 180 but they will be able to overcome enough obstacles to enable them to offer mass-produced fully-automated vehicles. It may not occur in my life-time but it will happen. That is my opinion, I could be wrong.

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Expat47
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 07:19:13 AM »

Remember why one had to, actually, know how to drive to get a license?

Back in the 70's my wife's driving "instructor" wasn't even going to teach her how to use a manual shift! What crap!
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 06:24:27 PM »

I was leaving this thread alone, but then late last week a client of mine came over with a Tesla "X" Model.  When he said it was outside all I thought was how amazing a fool could spend their money this way.  After he took me for a ride all I could think was if I could afford it I'd buy it.  Firstly, it has pick up like the FJR.  It's by far the fastest car I'd ever ridden in and that's including Corvettes, and European sports cars.  We got on I 94 late in the evening and he went from 60 to 90 in maybe 1.5 seconds.  When he punched it I felt just like I was on the FJR and dropped from 5th to 3rd then opened her up. 

We played with the Autopilot and it is really cool, but I wouldn't trust it.  It was intended for you to be able to pick something up from the floor or to turn for a few seconds to discipline a child.  It wasn't built to drive the car without supervision.  It's illegal according to my client for the autopilot to communicate with the GPS in the car.  So the car can not take you to your destination without manual guidance. 

In general I agree with the posters that say that these devices in the long run will make driving safer and improve the lives of many people.  It's that the technology still needs improvement.  Also remember that if autonomous vehicles cut the death and injury rate from auto accidents by 30 percent or seventy percent that would still be an incredible improvement.

In this morning's NY Times there is an article about a study that was just published regarding Meurk's new immune-therapy cancer drug.  the drug is aimed at routine lung cancer.  The people in the study that got the placebo had a 49% survival rate after a year, but the people who got the drug had a 70% survival rate after a year.  You could get the new drug and die anyways, but your odds are better with it then without it.  Also they are now looking at how to cocktail this drug with other anti-cancer medications to improve that survival rate.  Downside is just like the autonomous cars you will need to be a rich person to afford the therapy.  At $100,000.00 per year this medication is only in reach if you're wealthy, or your insurance company can be persuaded to pay the bill.

One more thing, I put a cup on my desk to collect money for my client that bought the Tesla.  He gave a ride to one of his friends and his friend said "This car is so fast it must have 12 cylinders"  The doctor said "No it doesn't have any cylinders".  So on the cup I have written that the money is to buy the poor doctor a few cylinders as maybe he can't afford them.
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 03:44:16 PM »

LOL @ Rich!
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 06:19:30 PM »

The only thing you can do is to pay as much attention to others on the road as you know you should...all the time. Good luck !
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minimac
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2018, 01:20:52 AM »

  ......At $100,000.00 per year this medication is only in reach if you're wealthy, or your insurance company can be persuaded to pay the bill....

Or be a Chicago lawyer!
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2018, 04:28:57 AM »

I have less faith in Human operators.

+1
No matter your or my opinion it is on the way with several components already available, auto braking, lane change warnings, enhanced cruise controls and such. The issue to us motorbike riders is ensuring motorbikes are considered in, testing, development, certification of the systems and riders are included in the process. The AMA is currently attempting to ensure the inclusion of motorbikes and riders in the process. A note to your legislators and copies to NTSA requesting same would be nice.
  There are two different but interrelated systems of concern as far as I am aware, Adaptive Cruise controls which are currently available that regardless of speed set will automatically slow to pace traffic until clear then resume set speed, warn of lane changes, etc. and the more involved Autonomous Driving Systems installed in vehicles commonly called 'driverless'. Currently, various combinations of LIDAR, Radar and visual signals are used in combination with GPS, maps and such. The issue for motorbikes is ensuring the LIDAR, Radar, visual signals and any other detection systems are recognizing motorbikes in all situations.
   While it is certain some drivers will become less attentive once they have these devices, it is also certain the impetus behind development of these system is in response to inattentive driving and why 'autonomous vehicles' are coming. Too many believe autonomous driving systems will greatly reduced accidents caused by driver error and momentary lapses in judgement to stop implementation.
   If or when it is ensured these systems detect motorbikes in all or even most situations they will be a great benefit to riders. I'll take being confronted with a vehicle preparing to make a left turn or pull out in front of me outfitted with autonomous systems that are likely to recognize the motorbike and prevent the driver from proceeding over current conditions even if it isn't 100%. I also believe as autonomous systems are developed and implemented, devices that make a motorbike appear larger than it is to LIDAR, Radar and any other systems will quickly become available. Of course that will also make a motorbike more visible to law enforcement speed detection devices.
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