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Author Topic: Thursday - Barber Motorsports Museum Or Talladega National Forest  (Read 674 times)
Maggie
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« on: March 08, 2018, 04:47:08 PM »

There will be two rides on Thursday either the Talladega National Forest or the Barber Motorsports Museum

I will be riding the TNF ride.  The Barber Motorsports Museum ride needs  leader or it will be an on your on thing.


https://goo.gl/maps/hB5gVYq4Apk

I will provide GPS files as the time comes closer and I finalize the route etc...

This ride is ALL about the destination.  I've been told this is an amazing place and well worth the visit.  It's 100 miles from Scottsboro which will be about a 2 hour ride with a bathroom/stretch stop.  

I've been advised to allow 3 hours for the visit.  Even at that I'm told you really won't take it all in.

The route will be the same way down and back. Unfortunately between Scottsboro and Birmingham there aren't a lot of what we consider fun roads. Most things more fun are to the east and that takes us way out of our way.  I would love to ride through the Talladega Forest but it is undo able to get all this in.

To be honest walking through a museum of motorcycles ain't my thing (which is strange since I like history so much) so I will do a loop around ride while those that want to do the museum can. Anyone is welcome to come with me.

https://goo.gl/maps/3uXCGLqVRa42


Meetup Spot/Time:  Same meet up place as previous day at the Goosepond General Office however wheels up at 8:30am!!!!!!!

I need to call regarding lunch.  There's plenty of places near by if they do not have a cafe inside.  I will ask if people can leave and reenter.

So this post will change after I call.




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* optional.jpg (694.38 KB, 622x649 - viewed 26 times.)
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 04:42:54 AM »

The BIG question is....... Do we get a lap of the track?
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Maggie
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 03:20:27 PM »

Yes we can get on the track.  As a group we need to pony up $25,000.  :-)


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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2018, 04:19:47 PM »

I'll check the couch for change.
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2018, 07:32:18 PM »

3 hours?  Yup, 3 hrs. minimum to really enjoy it.  I've been twice. 1st time had plently of time. The 2nd time had to rush thru in about 1 1/2 hrs. b4 they closed.  1st time way more fun.

Lunch ..... Rusty's Bar-B-Q is nearby on 78 .... we ate there last time we were there .... yum!

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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 07:37:12 PM »

Yes we can get on the track.  As a group we need to pony up $25,000.  :-)

Ahhhh Maggie, you're such a sweetheart.... and SO generous to your riding mates! You didn't really need that new RV, did you?
 
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Maggie
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 09:42:58 PM »

If you all want to stay at Barber 4 hours Iím cool with that as well.   Just let me know your thoughts. 


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Maggie
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 02:06:33 PM »

I'd like to speak frankly about this ride...

How many of you are truly interested in going to the museum??  

To be perfectly frank, I have zero interest in going...  I love history but I'm just not crazy about car/bike museums.   I'd rather spend my time riding than spend 3-4 hours in the Barber Museum.   Plus the fact that it's 2 hours from Scotsboro and to get their quickly will have to be along boring roads.

I had asked Mark to lead the ride but he plans to ride down in his car.

Is there anyone that wants to go that would be willing to lead the ride so I can plan an alternate ride?
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 07:48:58 PM »

We're in the "we come to ride" camp ... (and socialize with y'all while enjoying a few adult beverages of course).  Although the museum sounds interesting to me, Karin has little interest and we really do prefer to ride.
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 11:31:52 PM »

I would highly recommend the Barber museum to anyone who rides.
I'd like to go again, I just hate 4 hours on the interstate on the bike.
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 12:40:43 AM »

Steve (Canada) and I are working on a ride that will be about 270 miles.  It's over to the Talladega National Forest.  Stay tuned...

At this point, I think if you want to go to Barber it will be an on your own thing. 
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 05:39:55 AM »

Steve (Canada) and I are working on a ride that will be about 270 miles.  It's over to the Talladega National Forest.  Stay tuned...

At this point, I think if you want to go to Barber it will be an on your own thing.  

OK, I've spent the evening working out a Thursday ride that will allow us to run the whole length of the Talladega National Forest. (sort of like a mini Blue Ridge Parkway).

The ride would break down into 3 distinct sections.

  • A 148 km (92 mile) outward leg, departing at 8:00 am and then fuel and snack at 10:20 am (20 minute stop time PLEASE) GAS Available
  • A 164 km (102 mile) run up the Talladega Forest with 3 stops at scenic lookouts (10 minutes each) and a Stretch/Pee/drink stop at the 87 km point (54 mile) (15 minutes) and then a full lunch and GAS stop (multiple fast-food choices available) at about 2:20 pm (70 minutes full stop) departing at 3:30 pm
  • A 124 km (77 mile) run back to Scottsboro (no stops planned) arriving back at approximately 5:15 pm.

Total Distance, 436 km, or 271 miles.

I've found a lot of nice back roads and there is only an unavoidable 7 miles of Interstate!!!

Great scenery and if the weather cooperates, should be a nice day.

Now I just need to send this route to "She Who Must Be Obeyed" for approval.  

Steve
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 02:07:13 PM »

Like Len and Karin, I'm there for the ride, sights,socializing, and adult beverages!  I'll do a side trip to Barber on the way home, because I probably won't get that close again, for a while.
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 03:13:30 PM »

I hate to throw a wrench into all those that wanted to go to the museum.  Sorry but I just couldn't do it.  Maybe this could be your own your own thing for Friday??

The Talladega National Forest is amazing.
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 05:25:22 PM »

TNF for this old man.
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2018, 05:38:40 AM »

I'm in for the ride. I would recommend is if we get a rain day, we all carpool to the museum.
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 03:19:29 PM »


The ride would break down into 3 distinct sections.

  • A 148 km (92 mile) outward leg, departing at 8:00 am and then fuel and snack at 10:20 am (20 minute stop time PLEASE) GAS Available
  • A 164 km (102 mile) run up the Talladega Forest with 3 stops at scenic lookouts (10 minutes each) and a Stretch/Pee/drink stop at the 87 km point (54 mile) (15 minutes) and then a full lunch and GAS stop (multiple fast-food choices available) at about 2:20 pm (70 minutes full stop) departing at 3:30 pm
  • A 124 km (77 mile) run back to Scottsboro (no stops planned) arriving back at approximately 5:15 pm.

Total Distance, 436 km, or 271 miles.


I suspect 271 miles is a tad too much for an enjoyable ride for those who aren't routinely riding long distances.  And my real world experience with groups suggests 15-20 minute fuel stops and 10 minute view stops are unrealistic.  Might work for 1 or 2, but not for 10-15.  The line at the pumps and rest rooms alone will eat that interval up.

I'm all for the forrest, but not for an all day, pushing it ride.
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Maggie
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2018, 03:22:46 PM »

I think the Barber Museum should be an optional ride for Friday, the on your own day.

I will reorganize some of these threads this week.
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2018, 09:47:47 PM »


The ride would break down into 3 distinct sections.

  • A 148 km (92 mile) outward leg, departing at 8:00 am and then fuel and snack at 10:20 am (20 minute stop time PLEASE) GAS Available
  • A 164 km (102 mile) run up the Talladega Forest with 3 stops at scenic lookouts (10 minutes each) and a Stretch/Pee/drink stop at the 87 km point (54 mile) (15 minutes) and then a full lunch and GAS stop (multiple fast-food choices available) at about 2:20 pm (70 minutes full stop) departing at 3:30 pm
  • A 124 km (77 mile) run back to Scottsboro (no stops planned) arriving back at approximately 5:15 pm.

Total Distance, 436 km, or 271 miles.


I suspect 271 miles is a tad too much for an enjoyable ride for those who aren't routinely riding long distances.  And my real world experience with groups suggests 15-20 minute fuel stops and 10 minute view stops are unrealistic.  Might work for 1 or 2, but not for 10-15.  The line at the pumps and rest rooms alone will eat that interval up.

I'm all for the forrest, but not for an all day, pushing it ride.

Well it's possible to trim about 35-40 minutes from the outward leg but it substitutes nice scenic country roads for about 40 miles of Interstate.
On the way back, we could also use interstate and save about 15-20 minutes time.
It however doesn't change the distance much either way. Actually might be a couple of miles longer by Interstate, but of course faster riding, but IMHO boring! So overall, using the interstate would save no mileage, but could save 45 minutes to an hour of the day.
Unfortunately we can't move TNF closer to Scottsboro. It is what it is.

As to stops and timing. I'm still going to tweak the route and timing but what can't be avoided is there is really no services in the TNF, so we have to gas/eat early before entering the TNF, or later after exiting TNF. And for me, I don't have the fuel range to only stop at one or the other so must refuel at both. I'm sure that might also be true for most others.

We can easily "BUY" more time for rest stops (make them a half-hour each) just by leaving earlier or arriving home later. It's all a balancing act and I'm doing my best to find the balance that is both realistic and pleases the greatest number of people. But.... I'm always open to suggestions and as I note, will be reworking the route likely several more times seeing what options come up.

As to the scenic overlooks. There are three of them in TNF and they're completely unserviced (no bathrooms or anything) so I was thinking just a quick stop for a few photos, nothing more than that. We could also save time by not stopping at all, but that kinda defeats the purpose. But due to the length of the day and ride, I didn't want them to end up as a half-hour "dilly-dally" at each either. A happy balance hopefully.

As to the first gas stop, I've changed it to 30 - 45 minutes and there are 24 gas pumps (3 stations) within a 175 yard radius. Unless we all choose to line up for the same pump at the same station we should be all able to refuel quite quickly by being a bit smart about it. No matter which station you use to refuel, we can all meet at the McDonalds (also within the same radius) to depart from as a group. Even better is if some eat then gas, and some gas then eat so we don't overload facilities. There are also a couple of other food choices and a Walmart all in the same place.

Oh, and I've also added a Pee Only stop at the one-hour point in the ride so if your extra-large coffee you had with breakfast has hit your bladder by that point, we can solve your problem. Depend on it!  There is also a 3 hour (approx) leg from gas stop to gas stop thru the TNF which I thought was a bit long for bladders so there is a quick pee stop at perhaps the only VERY tiny country corner gas station I could find.

So when I get several options lined up, I'll run them all by Maggie for her opinion and we'll decide what hopefully is the best compromise.

However THANK YOU for your input which will be taken into consideration as we tweak what hopefully will be a great riding day and route.

thanks
Steve


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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2018, 04:17:46 PM »

Perhaps a bit of history to explain where I'm coming from ...

I went back to all previous Maxi-Scoot Rally postings (and my few records) to collect what I could regards planned rides.  Here's what I found:
 
Year       Planned Rides' Mileage   Average
2012       192  146                  169               
2013       139  141  152             144               
2014       102  187  154  136        145               
2015       244   98  122  169  177   162               
2016       165  173  182             173               
2017       141  218  213   *         191
           * No stats for Lou's ride            
           Overall Average  163
           Overall Mean     160

271 miles is 166% of the average planned ride from Maxi-Scoot Rally history.

I clearly remember the 192 mile ride at the first rally in Pennsylvania.  By our last gas stop (maybe 3/4 of the way through the ride) riders were commenting (complaining?) about how hot, and some tired, they were.  This was in Pennsylvania, it's highly likely Alabama will be hotter.

The longest ride ever planned (244 miles) was not ridden.  At some point during the ride our fearless leader recognized folks were tiring, and cut it short.  This has occurred on more than the longest rides as well.

Most of the rides had calculated speeds of high 30s to low 40s, suggesting much in the way of twisty roads.  The rides over 200 miles had calculated speeds of 47-48 mph, suggesting a lot more straight running in achieving these distances.  I have a GPS track from the 152 mile ride.  Probably 40 some miles of this was not at all twisty.  Our average speed was 39.5 mph.  On moderately twisty routes this is probably the best we'll achieve.  Even if broken into faster-slower groups, the time alotted must accomodate the slower groups ... leaving them behind (see you at the motel) is not an option for a group outing.  It defeats the purpose of a rally.

Based on my experience at every rally, even as adjusted, your estimates for stop times is overly optimistic.  If we stop (as we must) folks are going to ungear somewhat, stretch, walk around, and kibitz.  It's what they do.  The last person in is going to want to spend as much time there as the first person in.  It's highly improbable that, as a group, we're going to naturally "be smart" regards who goes to which station, who gases first, who eats first, etc. unless such is pre-assigned, and that's not likely to happen.  This is not a military operation ... folks are on vacation, they are not going to be rushed, and they're going resent being pushed - and we're not going to leave anyone because they need an extra 5 or 10 minutes.  I've been through this multiple times and have occasionally been frustrated that there's too much screwing around when we should be mounted up and on the road.  But I've learned to accept that's what people want to do, and it's their time, their enjoyment.  The very fact that they'll routinely stand around and shoot the shit rather than mount up gives testament to what they really want to do, whether they admit it or not..

And plans really go awry if the weather decides to leave it's mark.  A dozen riders of various skill levels 130 miles from "home" in a two hour deluge is not a comforting thought.

It also seems that we're going to have more than a few riders who've never been with us before.  They don't really know what to expect of us, and we know little about them.  We've been more than surprised by this on more than one occasion.  We're certainly not going to run 20 mph, but the last thing we want to do is turn someone off to riding (or to us) by pushing them too hard.

I haven't looked at any maps and don't know what the route looks like, but I'm inclined to believe there must be other alternatives available, be they pieces thereof or something totally different.

Again, been there (every rally), done that.  Pretty much every group ride (not just rallys) I've ever been on took longer than what was planned.  Just trying to interject a real world view of how things actually unfold.
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 05:54:54 PM »

I will speak to Steve later... I have been to TNF a ton of times never on a bike though.  I can look at taking a second group and cutting the distance down for those that do not want to do that much.

Another thing to mention the ride home will be relatively easy versus going to and when on the TNF Skywy.   Yes it's still riding.



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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2018, 06:10:00 PM »

I looked at the route Steve and I have been discussing.  I can cut the route down by about 40-50 miles and put us on  431 coming back to make it easier.  I'm willing to sacrifice and do that for those that do not want to do a longer day but still see a section of the TNF.
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2018, 06:35:02 PM »

Perhaps a bit of history to explain where I'm coming from ...

I went back to all previous Maxi-Scoot Rally postings (and my few records) to collect what I could regards planned rides.  Here's what I found:
 
Year       Planned Rides' Mileage   Average
2012       192  146                  169               
2013       139  141  152             144               
2014       102  187  154  136        145               
2015       244   98  122  169  177   162               
2016       165  173  182             173               
2017       141  218  213   *         191
           * No stats for Lou's ride            
           Overall Average  163
           Overall Mean     160

271 miles is 166% of the average planned ride from Maxi-Scoot Rally history.

I clearly remember the 192 mile ride at the first rally in Pennsylvania.  By our last gas stop (maybe 3/4 of the way through the ride) riders were commenting (complaining?) about how hot, and some tired, they were.  This was in Pennsylvania, it's highly likely Alabama will be hotter.

The longest ride ever planned (244 miles) was not ridden.  At some point during the ride our fearless leader recognized folks were tiring, and cut it short.  This has occurred on more than the longest rides as well.

Most of the rides had calculated speeds of high 30s to low 40s, suggesting much in the way of twisty roads.  The rides over 200 miles had calculated speeds of 47-48 mph, suggesting a lot more straight running in achieving these distances.  I have a GPS track from the 152 mile ride.  Probably 40 some miles of this was not at all twisty.  Our average speed was 39.5 mph.  On moderately twisty routes this is probably the best we'll achieve.  Even if broken into faster-slower groups, the time alotted must accomodate the slower groups ... leaving them behind (see you at the motel) is not an option for a group outing.  It defeats the purpose of a rally.

Based on my experience at every rally, even as adjusted, your estimates for stop times is overly optimistic.  If we stop (as we must) folks are going to ungear somewhat, stretch, walk around, and kibitz.  It's what they do.  The last person in is going to want to spend as much time there as the first person in.  It's highly improbable that, as a group, we're going to naturally "be smart" regards who goes to which station, who gases first, who eats first, etc. unless such is pre-assigned, and that's not likely to happen.  This is not a military operation ... folks are on vacation, they are not going to be rushed, and they're going resent being pushed - and we're not going to leave anyone because they need an extra 5 or 10 minutes.  I've been through this multiple times and have occasionally been frustrated that there's too much screwing around when we should be mounted up and on the road.  But I've learned to accept that's what people want to do, and it's their time, their enjoyment.  The very fact that they'll routinely stand around and shoot the shit rather than mount up gives testament to what they really want to do, whether they admit it or not..

And plans really go awry if the weather decides to leave it's mark.  A dozen riders of various skill levels 130 miles from "home" in a two hour deluge is not a comforting thought.

It also seems that we're going to have more than a few riders who've never been with us before.  They don't really know what to expect of us, and we know little about them.  We've been more than surprised by this on more than one occasion.  We're certainly not going to run 20 mph, but the last thing we want to do is turn someone off to riding (or to us) by pushing them too hard.

I haven't looked at any maps and don't know what the route looks like, but I'm inclined to believe there must be other alternatives available, be they pieces thereof or something totally different.

Again, been there (every rally), done that.  Pretty much every group ride (not just rallys) I've ever been on took longer than what was planned.  Just trying to interject a real world view of how things actually unfold.

When I was in a BMW club, I quickly figured out:
Leaving "on time" was a myth and "fifteen minute" stops were a fairie tale, and one hour=two hours :-)
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2018, 09:46:55 PM »

When I was in a BMW club, I quickly figured out:
Leaving "on time" was a myth and "fifteen minute" stops were a fairie tale, and one hour=two hours :-)


Yup, just like there's always "someone" who at a scheduled fuel stop says... "Oh I have enough and don't need to get gas", until midway thru the next stage they're screaming they need gas!!! I've run riders right out of gas and left them at the side of the road to figure out how to get home by themselves when they won't listen and are that stupid. But by the same token, I'll go out of my way to assist a fellow rider who has had a problem (mechanical, tire, etc) thru no fault of their own.
As to scheduling, I can plan a 500 km (300 mile) ride and be at any point within 10-15 minutes of schedule and finish the day just about right on time barring unforeseen traffic issues. My home club regularly schedules rides and makes lunch reservations and arrive on time. Not hard to do with a bit of planning and a group of people who choose to take others into consideration.

For me, I offered Maggie my help when asked to plan and lead a ride. It's about being positive and giving something back to the group by way of my contribution. Either way, I'll be there and help Maggie when and how I can. If I end up planning a ride and nobody wants to come, C'est la Vie! That's life. At worst, I'll hop on the Scoot and ride it myself and see the gang for drinks that evening. Depends what else is offered on the agenda.
Steve
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2018, 05:09:20 PM »

Ok, Steve and I have worked out two routes.  I will kill this thread and start another regarding the Thursday ride.

Steve will be leading the longer ride that will leave at 8am.  I will lead the shorter ride that will leave at 9:30am.  Both will be through the TNF the difference is Steve's will transverse the entire Skyway and mine only partial to save miles for those that don't wish to ride as long.
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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2018, 09:19:09 PM »

Ok, just to end this thread with a smile...... 

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