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Author Topic: Rear wheel play on Honda Reflex  (Read 500 times)
captainfish
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« on: June 19, 2017, 12:25:28 AM »

Hello one and all.  Come join in the fun.....
Time for some Reflex Maintenance questions.  Bike now has 11K miles.

The Reflex 250 has some rear wheel play.  Time to diagnose.

Pulled the wheel off and the wheel of course does not have a bearing on it.  The right-side (exhaust side) swing arm has a bearing.  That bearing only feels slightly stiffer than the new bearing I purchased. So, don't think that bearing is the culprit - but will replace it anyway as I've bought a replacement.
 
Question 1 - Do you guys put bearing grease on the inside of your grease seals even though these bearings are sealed-type?

With the wheel off, we were able to jiggle that rear wheel axle - or what is called, the "final gear".  It jiggled.  But then we realized that the only way to get to it was to remove the drive housing, where the belt and clutch is.  So, left side tupperware came off as well as the variator and the clutch.  THen came the final gear cover.  As we've not had a chance to change the gear oil since it was purchased, it was definitely in need of changing.

Before removing the rear wheel axle, we noticed some play between the gears as we jiggled the axle.  But, as that rear wheel axle sits inside a bearing for support (bearing is pressed on the inside of the final gear cover), did'nt know if that helped support it or not.

From there, we were able to remove that final gear - rear wheel axle - from the bike.  I placed the gear side back on to the bearing that supports it. Visually, I was holding the final gear cover in the left hand (inside of it facing up), and holding the axle with the right, I mounted the axle back in to its bearing.  There was play there.  Even with the axle just barely inserted in to the bearing race, there is play between the axle rod-end and the bearing race.

Question 2 - is that play normal?  If not, what's the best bet for which is worn down, the bearing or the axle (final gear on partzilla). 

Spinning the axle while it is sitting in that final gear bearing (that is mounted in the cover), .. it does spin, but it does not spin freely and it stops fairly quickly.  My expectation is that this should spin very freely.

Question 3 - if it is the bearing that needs to be replaced,... HOW?  how do you go about pulling the bearing out of the final gear cover?  Does one use a bearing puller? Like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-MTN9001-Pilot-Bearing-Puller/dp/B000X282DM/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1497823669&sr=1-1&keywords=Mountain+MTN9001+Pilot+Bearing+Puller

There isn't much room between the bearing race and the final gear cover.  Or, is the best bet to just buy a new cover and bearing and then mount the new bearing on the new cover?  Don't much like that idea.  That cover is $70USD.

Do you guys think that with that much play between the axle rod and the bearing race, that there could be "significant" erosion of the gear teeth between the wheel axle and the ... umm.. "countershaft gear"?

With the final gear cover off, the "Driveshaft" came off with it, and it's bearing.  That does not turn easy at all. But there is no play.  My expectation is that this should spin very freely.

I note that there are also bearings mounted to the inside of that "crankcase" housing.  These seem to be pressed in there as well.  I don't see how they did that, nor how to get them out.

Question 4 - HELP!  Any ideas?  Or, should we just take it to HONDA? And ask for a low-interest loan?
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bandito2
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 07:11:38 AM »

I gave a response over on the hondareflexowners yahoo group, but thought I would add here another method I found on youtube for removing pilot bearings by using wet toilet paper. The same principal of hydraulic pressure with the non-compress-ability of water apply. Just keep stuffing it with wet toilet paper, tap the bolt or whatever that fits closely in the hole and repeat till the bearing is forced out. You might try that instead of the wheel bearing grease method. Even though that removal process may take a little longer, the ease and time saved for clean up would seem to outweigh any advantage the grease method might have.
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Southeast Michigan Dark Side Rider
4 Honda Reflex scooters & a FSC600A Silverwing
Originator of the "Darkside" Honda Reflex. "Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter."
Sometimes I'm so far outside of the box, the Hubble telescope can't find me
captainfish
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 11:47:52 PM »

yeah, I saw that. That was incredible.  And thanks for your other suggestions. 
However, what I ended up purchasing was a "Blind Bearing Puller - 9 piece set".  It has a expandable piece that goes in to the inner race of the bearing , and then a slide hammer is used to bang it out by pulling on it.  Worked great on the main bearing in the Rear Gear Cover.  Had to invert the cover and the slide hammer to pound, in a downward motion, while the Gear Cover was supported up off the floor by 2 foot long 2x4s. So, it was kind of like milking a cow.  (cough).  Now to wait till the parts come in.

Replaced the bearing on the swing-arm.  Taught the kid some valuable life lessons.  Don't hit your finger!!

My next issue is with the bearing that is used for the "driveshaft".  See the screen cap of the "transmission" gears and bearings. Driveshaft is #3 and has a bearing #10.  The driveshaft plopped out of the Final Gear Cover (seen on right side of this image), but the bearing came with it.  I am unable to remove the bearing from the shaft of the driveshaft.  I've pounded on the shaft while 2x4's are on each side of the shaft supporting bearing. So I'm pounding the shaft down through the bearing hoping to get the shaft to slide out. 

http://i66.tinypic.com/akj03p.jpg

If you see the image, the bearing is all the way slid to the left-hand side of the driveshaft up against the finger gears you see.  So, I'm pounding on the smaller end (seen located on right hand side of the driveshaft in image).  But, the dang thing won't budge. 

Guess I could freeze this assembly and then heat up the bearing, while the inside plastic bearing-ball holder melts... hoping that the inner bearing race gets warmed up before the shaft thaws.....  sigh.

Hasn't anybody done this before?  I am surprised that these bearings are going bad with only about 11,000 miles on the bike.

My fear, is that gear #6, the "final gear", which is the shaft that the rear wheel sits on, is also ground down causing the loose wheel play.  $70 isn't cheap.
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