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Author Topic: Did my second CVT removal on a 650 today.  (Read 13829 times)
Buffalo
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2018, 02:47:44 AM »

There are two ways to get the bolt out.  Simplest is to use a pneumatic or electric impact wrench if you have access to one.  You can usually get the bolt to break free that way.

If not then you will have to hold the large bolt (actually the top of the adapter not a bolt) while you loosen the smaller bolt.  Suzuki makes a special tool for that bit it is pricey.  What I did was use a deep well socket to hold the adapter and pass an extension through it to engage the smaller bolt.  If I remember right it's a 30 mm.  There is a picture of the setup I used in the thread I pointed you to. 
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Craig
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Buffalo
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2018, 02:53:54 AM »

Just looked in the three.  It's a 32 mm.  I think this link will get you to the image. https://postimg.cc/image/9tgvggbj9/
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Buffalo
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2018, 02:56:45 AM »

If you look close at the image you will see I ground flats on the sides of the socket so I could hold it with a Crescent wrench.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2018, 03:13:42 AM »

This is the image of me using the setup on the bolt.  https://postimg.cc/image/s9ha3iiq7/. The 32 mm socket is a 1/2 drive and the extension is a 3/8 so it goes through the socket to reach the smaller bolt.
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Ernest
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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2018, 04:50:37 AM »

Thank you so much for the advise, I've been restoring a 1986 Honda elite 150, i should be done tomorrow. Then i'll get started with the burgman.
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Ernest
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« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2018, 01:02:01 AM »

I pulled the filter off today and there is nothing turning behind there when the motor is turning. Also, i notice when the motor was running the 32 mm adapter is turning but the center bolt is not moving. After i figure out the problem with my scooter, i would like to know if you know anything about the starter button. My scooter won't start when i push the start button, my neighbor touched both screws on the solenoid and it started. Do you think i have a bad switch?   
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Buffalo
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« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2018, 02:42:35 AM »

The adapter is bolted to the end of the input shaft.  Teeth on it engage with the inside of the engine ring gear so it turns with the ring gear.  Splines on the input shaft also engage with the inside of the ring gear and provides the primary input to the CVT.  In theory the adapter and the bolt should turn in sink but they are not hard locked together.  The only connection is the bolt that screws into the end of the input shaft.   

The input shaft turns the primary pulley.  The primary pulley turns the belt.  The belt turns the secondary pulley.  The fan you can see behind the filter is bolted to the back of the secondary pulley and spins with it. If you can't see the fan turning then either power is not getting to the CVT or the belt is broken.   

The bolt not turning might indicate it has snapped in two.  If it has you should be able to just pull the adapter and the bolt out.  It might have just worked loose so you can screw it out without to much problem.  But if it is just loose it should still turn with the input shaft.  Since it doesn't then the splines on the CVT input shaft and/or on the ring gear from the engine crankshaft may be stripped.  Only way to know is to get the adapter out and look up inside.  Even then you may not be able to tell without pulling the CVT out of the bike. 

It's starting to look like you have a bigger issue than just a snapped belt. 
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Ernest
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« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2018, 05:43:43 AM »

I'll try to remove the bolt but i can turn the bolt with a socket and the rear wheel turns. i read how you say The input shaft turns the primary pulley. i am confused because when i put a socket on the bolt it turns the back wheel. i will try to remove that bolt tomorrow and check inside.
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« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 09:09:56 PM »

Hate to say it but looking more like the spline shaft is stripped. 
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Buffalo
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2018, 01:12:18 AM »

I am a bit confused too.  Turning the bolt should not turn the rear wheel because the clutch would not be engaged.  Power goes from the engine to the CVT then to the clutch and final drive before it gets to the rear wheel.  The clutch will only engage if the output shaft of the CVT is spinning at well above engine idle speed.  No way you could spin it fast enough with a socket wrench to get the clutch to engage.  However you might get a little movement just from drag in the clutch plates. 

Anyway if you are seeing even a little movement that indicates the belt in the CVT is intact.  If it were broken the output shaft of the CVT would not move even a little. 

The bolt is not hard attached to the adapter, it just passes through a hole in it.  It screws into the end of the input spline so if it is intact and screwed all the way in turning it will turn the CVT.  But the input shaft is also attached to the ring gear with splines on the outside of the shaft and inside of the ring gear like the way an axle shaft goes into the differential of a car.  The ring gear is attached to the crankshaft on the engine with teeth on the outside of it and teeth on the crankshaft.  To turn the input shaft by turning that bolt you would have to be turning the engine over if everything is intact.  As Murf said, sounds like something may be stripped. 

If so hopefully it is the splines on the input shaft.  That you can replace by pulling the CVT apart.  If it is the ring gear you will have to pull the engine and split the crankcase to get to it.  Much bigger job than taking the CVT apart. 
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Buffalo
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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2018, 01:22:25 AM »

Took a couple of pictures of an engine I have laying on the floor of my shop that might help. 

First is a picture of the top of the engine.  The cylinders are at the top of the picture and the clutch is at the bottom.  The clutch housing is that big drum looking thing sticking out to the left of the engine at the bottom of the picture.  The smaller looking drum further up is the cover for the magneto on the end of the crankshaft.  The CVT bolts to the engine on the right side where you can see the 2X4 laying on the floor.  The input shaft goes into the engine about  where the end of the 2X4 is. 




The second picture was made with the engine turned on it's side so you can see the inside of the ring gear where the input shaft goes in.  The splines on the input shaft mesh with the ones you can see on the inside of the gear. 




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Ernest
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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2018, 03:40:47 AM »

i removed the center bolt today, it's broken. here are some photos i took. Let me know what you think i should do next, how do i get that broken piece out.







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Buffalo
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« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2018, 04:53:19 AM »

That would explain why the adapter turned with the engine but the bolt didn't.  Does not explain your lose of power though.  The bolt just holds the adapter on.  It has nothing to do with transferring power from the engine to the CVT.  Next step would be to start the engine and see if the the input shaft is turning.  If it is then you are getting power to the CVT and likely have a broken belt so power is not getting out of the CVT.  If it is not then there is some type of problem with the ring gear input shaft connection. 

Tension should be off the remaining part of the bolt so if you can get hold of it with something you should be able to screw it out.  Unless someone put thread locker on it.  In that case not sure how you are going to get it out short of drilling a hole in it and using an ease out.

Big question now is why the bolt broke.  Possibly it was just over torqued when installed.  Anyway ii looks like you will need to pull the CVT off.  Pulling the CVT case apart will let you look inside it and maybe you will see something that will tell you what broke the bolt. 

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Ernest
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« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2018, 12:35:49 AM »

Hello, can you please show me how you pull off the CVT without removing the motor. if you have some illustrations it will be nice. i;m ready to try to fix my bike. thank you
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Buffalo
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« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2018, 04:10:37 AM »

Sorry but I don't have any pictures.  I can tell you the basic steps.

1. Remove all the bodywork from the seat forward except the front finder, dash and gauges.  
2. Take the bolts that hold the radiator on out and let it hang down. No need to drain.
3. Unplug all the wires that connect the engine to the frame.  
4. If you have ABS brakes unplug the wire from the rear ABS sensor.  
5. remove the exhaust.
6. Remove the hose that connects the air filter box to the air chamber above the throttle bodies.
7.  Disconnect the hoses on the back od the chamber above the throttle bodies and remove the 10 mm bolt that attaches it to the frame.
8.  Disconnect the rear shocks at the bottom mounts.
9.  Support the front of the engine with blocks of some kind or as I do a floor jack.
10.  Rig up a way to lift the frame.  I use bottle jacks under the brackets that the passenger foot rest bolt too. Some folks use hoist or other means.  
11. Remove the three engine mount bolts.
12.  Raise the frame up just enough that the CVT will clear the frame when you slide it off.  As you do so keep a watch to make sure nothing (wires, oses etc.) has been missed and is pulling tight.  
13.  Remove the bolts that secure the CVT to the engine.   Screw the engine mount bolts into three of the bolt holes to use as guides when you slide the CVT out.  
14.  If it is not already out remove the CVT adaptor.
15. Slide the CVT out till it is free.  Hold it up with one hand while you remove the engine mount bolts you were using as guides and then set it down on the ground.

As best I can remember those are all the steps.  Installation is done in reverse order.  Hope that helps.  

 
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Ernest
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2018, 03:26:31 AM »

Thank you, l'm going to tackle it this weekend. I'll let you know.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2018, 12:47:05 AM »

Remembered one other thing you need to do before raising the frame.  Unbolt the rear caliper from the disc and wire it to the frame so it came rise with the frame. 
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Ernest
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« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2018, 12:00:58 AM »

Good afternoon, i didn't get a chance to work on it this weekend. i was very busy putting a motor on my 1986 elite 150. Thanks for all the advice i'll get to it soon.
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