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Author Topic: Snapped belt  (Read 25248 times)
Buffalo
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« on: September 11, 2011, 04:59:56 AM »

Looks like I will be riding the 400 for a while.  Snapped the belt in the 650 today.  Mileage at the time 80,576 miles.  I took off from a stop and when it go to about 25 mpg all at once no power going to the rear wheels.  Road to my house with Robin on her bike and got my trailer and went back to pick it up.  When we got it back to the house I put it up on the lift and pulled the CVT filter off.  If I reached through the opening and turned the secondary pully the rear wheel turns.  That tells me power is getting from the CVT to the rear wheels which points to the belt in the CVT.  I didn't do any more than that today, it was to nice a day to not be riding.  Took the 400 out and road the rest of the day. 

I might have done something stupid last week that contributed to the failure.  I jump start a friends bike and it did not want to keep running at idle as the alternator did not put out enough juice.  In a rush to get going I closed down the seat, pulled on my gloves and helmet and we took off.  I forgot to release the parking brake and went about a mile before I realized it.  That could not have been good for the belt.  For about the next 200 miles I felt a little vibration when I would speed up.  It started to smooth out by the end of the ride though and it was running smooth this morning up until it just quit. 

It will probably be a little while before I tear into it.  I've got a little medical issue I need to get looked at next week and I don't want it sitting in pieces while I get that resolved.   
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Craig
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2011, 05:11:54 AM »

Bummer, hope the scoot and you are easily fixed and accumulate many more miles.
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2011, 01:27:50 PM »

Yes, hope all is well with you.....  the belt will be there when ready.  Let us know how both go!
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2011, 01:33:14 PM »

Agreed, and all the best wishes from me as well that you and the scoot are both up to full speed very soon.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2011, 06:14:18 PM »

I'm hopeful that nothing else in the transmission was damaged when the belt snapped.  If so then I should be able to just put in a new belt and reassemble.  Belts only run about $300.  Biggest deal is all the stuff you have to remove to get to the transmission. 

As for me.  I had a high hemogoblin count on my last physical.  The Doc has checked it a couple of times since then and it's down some but still higher than she likes.  She has set me up with a hematologist to find out what is causing it.  Could be no big deal but it could be a couple of things that are not so good.  Won't know until I see him and he runs some test.  Kind of like the bike, got to look at the insides and see what's broke first 
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Buffalo
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 10:22:26 PM »

I started work on taking the bike apart.  I'll try to post some pictures as I go so you can get an idea of the work involved.  I'm taking my time and bagging and tagging everything as I go so I will know what goes where when I put it back together. 

Here is what I've done so far. 

Yesterday afternoon I spent about 3 hours pulling off the front body work.  It should have only taken me about and hour but I had two bolts on the front box that stripped and I had to drill them out. 

This morning I pulled the rest of the body work off.  All that is left on the bike are the mirrors, dash, windshield and the front fender.  It looked like this at that point.


After that I pulled the upper frames and the trunk box off leaving the back looking like this.


Next thing to do was to pull the final drive cover off, unplug and remove the rear light harness, and drain the oils from the engine, transmission and final drive.  That left the back of the bike pretty naked.


Now on to the front.  First step there is to remove the air box leaving the front looking like this.


That is all I had time for today.  Total time spent was about 4 hours. 

I've got other things to do this afternoon and tomorrow so it will be Sunday before I can get back on it.  The starting task then will be to remove the throttle bodies.

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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 11:00:09 PM »

Do you have to take off all that body work just to work on the transmission? Or did you have do other things too so just decided to make it easier? I like to do my own maintenance and if I had to do all that, I would have to rethink the brand of scooter I would consider.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 11:29:22 PM »

Yes you do.  The CVT is buried inside the frame on the right side of the bike under the seat.  While you can see it by just taking the lower panels off there is not enough room to get it out without it hitting the frame.  That means that you have to pull the whole engine/CVT/final drive unit out of the frame so that you can separate the CVT from the engine and final drive. 

It's not as bad as it sounds.  It's not something you are going to be doing very often.  The belt last a lot longer than the belts in normal CVT's like the one in your Ruckus.  I've had the bike over 4 years and I have put 80,596 miles on it.  I expect this will be my one and only time to pull the CVT out to replace a belt.  Nothing hard about it that I can see, just a little time consuming. 

If you have to pay someone to do it the cost is pretty high.  Your probably talking 15 to 20 hours of work for a shop to pull the CVT out, fix it and put it back.  At the normal $100 or more an hour most shops charge that is $1,500 to $2,000 in labor alone minimum. 

What would have been smart for Suzuki to do would have been to put a removable section in the frame on that side so you could pull the CVT without having to take everything apart.     
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 06:42:24 AM »

Sorry to hear of your misfortune! Always helps to have a spare scoot when one is down!
Hoping your health issues are simply resolved & a speedy fix to your 650!
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Buffalo
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 12:20:28 AM »

Thanks, the medical issue is still up in the air.  I had some test run and am waiting on the results now. 

The bike is now all in pieces.  I finished pulling the power module out of the frame before I came in to watch the Cowboy game.  I'll post pictures in a little while.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 01:09:30 AM »

And now for the pictures of what I did today.

First step was to remove the stuff at the front of the bike.  These included the radiator, air chamber, and throttle bodies.  This is the hole that results in the front of the frame.  You can see the top of the cylinder head and the engine is short enough to drop down and out of the bottom of the frame. 


Some things I am doing as I go.  I'm stuffing rags into any openings to keep critters. Here are rags are stuffed into the intakes after the throttle bodies are removed.  I'm also marking coupling with colored tape so I know where things go when I put it back together.  Here you can see yellow tape on an electrical couple and white tape on a throttle cable.  The word bottom you can see on the tape is so I know it is the one that goes on the bottom of the linkage.  There are two and I marked the other top. 


When I unhooked the fuel line I discovered it had a siphon prime on it and the fuel would run out.  I stuck the end of it in a 5 gallon gas can so all the fuel would drain from the tank.  That lighten the load when I had to lift the frame off. 


Next step was to remove the exhaust system.


Then I removed the rear brake caliper, went around and unhooked all the remaining electrical connections, and turned the bike around on the lift so I could lift the frame up and roll it down off the lift. 


Now all that was left was to double check that everything was unhooked.  Then I put a jack under the engine to support the front of it, unbolted the rear shocks, took out the engine mounting bolts and lifted the frame off the power module and rolled it down off the lift.  I was wishing I had a little help when I did this as it took all my strength to do it without dropping the front of the bike.  I was sure glad I drained that tank as I don't think I would have made it with the weight of 4 gallons of gas added. 


Here is what it looks like from the back.


Next step will be to separate the CVT from the power module and take it apart. 
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Buffalo
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 01:14:15 AM »

If Suzuki had just made the lower curved section of the frame that you can see in this picture removable this would have been an easier job.  You could have just taken the front body work off, removed that section of frame, unbolted the CVT from the power module and slid it out. 


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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 01:07:20 PM »

Keep us updated on your health issues please.....

On your project, WOW!!  Good luck!
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Buffalo
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 03:03:19 PM »

Will do. 

Taking the scoot apart looks daunting but turned out to be fairly simple.  Mainly it's just unbolt and unplug, nothing a shade tree mechanic can't handle.  A little time consuming because there is a lot of stuff to unbolt and unplug.  I've spent around 8 hrs so far but I'm not working at it hard and I'm taking time to label everything to make it easier to put back together. 

Today I start pulling the CVT off.  The manual calls for a couple of special tools to do that.  A fellow on Burgman USA has come up with a work around for one of them and I think I  have one for the other.  I will need to go buy a couple of things to rig those.   
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Buffalo
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 03:25:51 AM »

Well I pulled the CVT off the bike today and opened it up. 

First I had to rig up some special tools.  I used a 14 mm socket inside a 32 mm socket as the tool to removed the primary shaft adapter.


I cut some 3/8 inch rod and threaded it to make the alignment tools to slide the cvt off the engine crankcase.


Once all that was in place I unbolted everything and slide the CVT off.


I had to use a big pipe wrench as the last special took to hold the secondary spline adapter while I loosened the bolt to remove it.


Once I had the CVT case open it was obvious that a broken belt was indeed my problem.  That's it wrapped around the primary pulley. 


And this is what it looked like when I fished it out.  Those little things laying beside it are the links that had come off and were laying in the bottom of the case.


The CVT is now stored inside a plastic bag to keep it clean while I order and wait for parts.

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Maggie
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 03:39:22 AM »

Wow, great work Craig!
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Buffalo
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 06:11:56 PM »

So far this has been a time consuming but fairly simple job.  I haven't run into anything yet that required any special mechanical ability to do.  Biggest problem will be remembering where everything goes when I put it back together. 
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Maggie
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 06:24:54 PM »

You have it pretty well documented so I bet it will be "ok".
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 07:20:22 PM »

It is something I would never attempt on my own! Would be a major PITA for me!
My hats off to you for doing this yourself! Hopeing it goes back together as simply for you as it came apart! And you will again be wearing the famous Burgman Grin!
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 07:55:35 PM »

I'm still wearing the grin, I've got my 400 to ride until I get this one back togeher.  That is one reason I'm not rushing to get it finished.  I'm just taking my time and working at an easy pace. 
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Buffalo
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2011, 12:37:32 AM »

UPS delivered the parts for my CVT a few minutes ago.  Looks like I can start working on it again next week. 
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2011, 03:12:32 AM »

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Buffalo
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2011, 02:22:53 AM »

Started putting things back together today.  I've got the CVT reassembled with the new belt in it. I'll reattach it to the engine tomorrow then start trying to remember where everything goes as I put the bike back together.  With luck I will get it all done this week. 
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2011, 01:57:06 AM »

I'm back working on the bike.  Started yesterday with the rebuild of the CVT.  First thing I had to do was pull the plastic drive gears and the secondary pulley out.


I then spent some time cleaning everything up real good and removing the old sealer from the case halves.  Then it was time to put on the plastic gloves and start the assembly process.  You have to wear the gloves to make sure you don't get any body oil on the belt or pullies.


First step is to place the belt around the primary pulley making sure the direction mark (that white cross) is running the right way.


Then you protect the primary pulley with a cloth while you work the secondary pulley into place inside the belt and drop it back into the case.



Now you can put the plastic gears back in.


Next you put new seals and o-rings in.




After that you can put sealer on the case flanges and slide the back of the case on over the shafts and bolt it in place. Once that is done you put a little oil on the output shaft bearing so it won't be dry when you start the bike up and press the output shaft adapter in place.  I built a tool from a bolt, a nut, some washers and a large socket to press the adapter on.



Now the only thing left to do to the cvt is torque the nut that holds the adapter on and remount the sensors and adjuster motor.





And that gets the CVT back together and ready to mount on the bike which is what I did today.

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Maggie
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 02:04:35 AM »

I know where I am trailering my bike if the bike ever breaks

Nice job, Craig and great documentation!
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Buffalo
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« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2011, 02:14:33 AM »

Today I mounted the CVT back on the power module and started the bike reassembly process.

To mount the CVT I screwed one of the alignment pins I made into the engine then lifted the CVT up and slide it on the pin.  I then put two on the engine mount bolts in to help keep the CVT square while I got the splines on the shafts engaged into the engine and final drive. 


To get the splines engaged you take the cover off the end of the crankshaft to access the bolt on the end of the crankshaft.  You can see the missing cover in the picture above.  You slowly turn the crankshaft while pushing on the CVT until the splines line up and the CVT goes up against the engine.  I pushed it part of the way on then used the bolts that hold the CVT on to pull it the rest of the way on.  I did that by turning each bolt just a little at a time while rotating the engine to make sure everything was aligned right and not binding.
When you get it in place it looks like this.


The last thing you have to do is go around on the other side and screw the input shaft adapter in place and torque it.  I used the tools I made to remove the adapter to torque it back.


Once the power module was together I mounted the frame back on it.  To make it easier to wheel the frame back up in place I used a tie down strap to lock the front forks then picked up the back on the frame like a wheel barrow and rolled it back up on the like and in place on the power module.


With the frame back on I hooked up most of the electronics, attached the exhaust, hooked the back brakes back up, mounted the top sub frames and the trunk back in place.  At the end of the day it was starting to look like a bike again.


I've got some stuff to do around the house tomorrow like wash cloths, pay bills and buy groceries so I likely won't be working on it again before Friday.
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Buffalo
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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2011, 02:15:33 AM »

I know where I am trailering my bike if the bike ever breaks

Nice job, Craig and great documentation!

I charge by the hour 

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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2011, 02:20:06 AM »

Ummm, well...


You should!
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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2011, 03:12:52 AM »

Very meticulous, Craig. I think I now have an understanding of why some people having drive work done on the Burgman, under warranty at the dealer, have repeat failures after repairs, failure to follow prescribed procedure.
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« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2011, 03:37:41 AM »

I'm hoping when I get mine back together and start up the bike it doesn't go boom.  Nothing about it has been difficult or even very tricky.  I'm not sure why repair procedure success with them has been so spotty.  I'm thinking either they don't clean everything thoroughly or they don't do a good assessment on what parts actually need replacing. 

I know the first time they put Robin's transmission back together the mechanic recommended they replace one of the case halves because it had been damaged by the stopper bolt failure.  The warranty people over road that and the transmission failed again in short order.  The warranty people ended up paying to take it apart again and replace the case half as well as the parts that were damaged the second time.   

In my case I only had a snapped belt and as near as I could tell nothing else was damaged.  I hope my assessment was good. 
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