May 22, 2022, 12:46:31 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Battery Drain  (Read 154 times)
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« on: January 16, 2022, 12:10:20 PM »

What I know & understand about electricity would fit in a thimble with enough room left over to drive a truck through so this is either a stupid question or I'm just venting but.....

I recently bought a 12v jumper battery from Noco that lives in the trunk of the VW which is parked next to the AK and has a physically smaller battery in it. I brought it into the house today, after it has been sitting out there for the past couple of months, to recharge it. IT DIDN'T NEED RECHARGING! But if I don't run the scoot for a week, or less, I'll be pulling the front end off to give it a jump or recharge the battery.

That, to me, just does not make any sense as my mechanic has fitted a kill switch that disconnects the battery from the system so there is (should be) no drain at all.

Any wisdom???
Logged

__
Don
jdbrot
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 21
Offline Offline

Location: Kentucky
Bikes Owned: Honda Reflex Sport ABS
Posts: 1933

Thank You
-Given: 31
-Receive: 203



« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2022, 02:17:21 PM »

If the battery is getting close to 3 years old it is nearing the end of its useful life. Check manufacturing date on the battery.
Logged
minimac
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 15
Offline Offline

Location: Oswego, NY Leesburg, Fl
Posts: 1831

Thank You
-Given: 53
-Receive: 142



Email
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2022, 04:18:23 PM »

There's a process I used on my golf cart batteries (6-8v) which helped regenerate them. I drained them and filled with a solution of baking soda and water. Let them sit for a day, then flushed. All sorts of 'stuff' came out. Repeated that process until nothing else foreign  came out, then filled with fresh battery acid, and charged them.
  Apparently, the reaction from electrolytes and the lead plates create something that looks like a calcium build up that accumulates on the bottom. When it reaches the plates, it causes the battery to drain, or not hold a charge.
 I bought the battery acid at an auto parts store ($13)and two boxes of baking soda at the grocery store.  My batteries were old when I got the cart, but they are chugging along just fine two years later.  In my case it was worth it-I saved over $800 for new batteries.
 I wouldn't call that wisdom, but it worked for me and it might be worth a try .
Logged

Walk fast...look worried.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"       Marilyn Monroe
Goldwing Aspencade GL1500
 ̶B̶u̶r̶g̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶E̶x̶e̶c̶u̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶650
 ̶M̶a̶j̶e̶s̶t̶y̶ ̶4̶0̶0̶ ̶X̶2̶
Honda Silverwing
Morphous 250
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2022, 04:35:40 PM »

jdbrot: It should be new or just a few months old.
Minimac: sealed battery
Logged
jdbrot
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 21
Offline Offline

Location: Kentucky
Bikes Owned: Honda Reflex Sport ABS
Posts: 1933

Thank You
-Given: 31
-Receive: 203



« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2022, 07:40:09 PM »

Dealers install batteries and not the factory. They don't always install the newest one on the shelf. Happened to several friends. But Minimac' solution works too but be careful.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2022, 07:56:42 PM »

Sealed batteries should not ever be opened. They can be but should not be.
There are battery MAINTAINERS available that have a mode specifically designed to remove "sulfation" which is that calcium-like substance that minimac is seeing. Not all maintainers have this special programmed step but some do. It is actually a deposit on the plates of the battery cells and if it builds up too much it will bridge between the plates causing that cell to short out. Letting a lead acid battery, like a wet cell or AGM, sit for a long time will cause sulfation.

As to why the jump starter battery seemed to hold a charge and the AK 550 battery did not. The type of batteries are different. Seems to me that the battery put in the scooter simply does not hold a charge as well as other batteries. Every time I read of someone who has put in a new battery in their AK 550, and there have been a few times I've read that, the new battery seems to do better than the OEM battery. The static charge is a bit higher and it holds charge longer.

What model battery is in your AK 550? I took my OEM battery in to a battery store to have it load tested in case that was part of my heated grips problem. The battery tested good so that's not it. But I also noted that the model number on the battery is slightly different than what I've seen in other prior year AK scooters. The manuals and other documentation I've found call for a TTZ12S model battery. That is a Yuasa model number and usually the battery in the AK will be branded with Kymco on the case. Mine also says Kymco on the case but is a TTZ14S. The big difference that I have found... the 12S has slightly lower CCA volts as well as lower Ahr ratings than the 14S.

In the USA, at least, the TTZ is not easily available to buy. I do have the TTZ battery in my AK 550 but that came with it from Taiwan. In the USA we have the YTZ instead, in either YTZ12S or YTZ14S, and the above difference is the same between those two models. The TTZ comes from the factory or manufacturer (Yuasa) with a separate acid pack that must be used to fill the battery by the end user or dealer prepping the battery for the end user and then the battery is sealed, but the YTZ is filled and sealed at the factory before it is sent out.

But to get back to the original post question...
It is not that unusual, not real common but not as rare as you'd think, that a battery goes bad just a few months after being put into service. Or even being defective from the factory. Though if a battery doesn't last at least several months the dealer or factory usually will replace it if it is found to be defective.

The Noco jump starters that I have seen use a Lithium battery which is not a lead acid battery, wet or AGM or otherwise. Those will hold a charge much longer than a standard lead acid battery. There is at least one user I know of with an AK 550 who put a Lithium battery in to replace the OEM battery and the static charge, battery sitting with no power used for over a half hour, is over 13v and it does hold its charge much longer than the OEM even without a cutout switch that disconnects the battery from the scooter systems.

One thing to point out though. A Lithium battery requires a very different kind of battery maintainer or charger than a lead acid battery does. There are also a few maintainers that are designed to manage both lead acid and Lithium batteries and can auto sense which one it is plugged into. If your charger or maintainer does not state that a Lithium battery is supported then it isn't.



***note: I mention "battery maintainer" instead of charger. There is a BIG difference between those. A charger is a device that pushes a fixed charge, usually a fixed current (amps), into a battery until you unplug it. Those can burn out or destroy a battery if left unattended and allowed to remain plugged in after a battery is fully charged. They also do not balance the charge across all cells of a battery but just inject the amps without any sensing. There are now some chargers that do have a sensor that will cut it off when a battery shows full charge since the amps will drop as a battery fills up and the sensor can "see" when that happens. The best option is using a battery maintainer such as a Battery Tender. These devices have a programmed sequence that is applied to the battery to first charge it up, then run through a second step to even the charge across all the cells, and then a low power "float" charge to ensure the battery is well topped off, followed by shutting down to avoid over charging the battery. These can be left connected to a battery all the time and some will even sense when a battery drains to a point where it turns back on to run through the program again to keep a battery at full charge through a season. I keep my AK 550 connected to a Battery Tender Plus when it is parked in my garage even though I normally ride it every few days.
Logged

/bob
2022 Kymco AK 550 Super Touring Extreme in Matte Deep Blue
RETIRED - US Navy and Air National Guard
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 06:33:18 AM »

Thanks, that all makes sense. I've got the Noco Genus 5 that does work with just about everything that holds a charge. It didn't get really good points as a maintainer but I can't get the scoot close to an outlet anyhow plus it has to sit outside as there is no garage (lucky to have a driveway).
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page May 17, 2022, 05:26:04 PM