May 22, 2022, 12:04:56 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Kymco AK 550 heated grips  (Read 700 times)
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2022, 07:41:02 AM »

If the muffs you've tried don't stay open so you can slip your hand in with no problem then you're dealing at the wrong end of the spectrum. My muffs are going on 6 years old and are stiff enough to present a "hole" that is always open. I bought them at the Piaggio dealer and they're so branded but I think they're Tucano Urbano.
Logged

__
Don
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2022, 12:39:12 AM »

Just heard back from the dealer. They did find the problem. The shop tech set the AK on its center stand and started the engine and turned on the heated grips and let it run for some time. The shop tech then blasted the grips and also the controller with freeze spray. When the controller was sprayed and cooled the heated grips system failed and showed a fail code. So we have a winner... er... loser!

I had done this in my driveway when the temp was around 23F and the heated grips worked flawlessly when I did that but failed when I actually rode down the road in less than a mile at that temp. I don't have any freeze spray. The experiment I did told me there should be nothing wrong with the grip heater elements and likely nothing wrong with the grip heat thermal sensor which should be for sensing the temperature of the heater elements at the grips. The temp inside the body work of the AK would be slightly warmed by engine heat and the only part that would be affected by that would be the controller. So what the shop tech found supports what I suspected.

The warranty coordinator called me asking to verify the correct part number for the controller since she recalled I had sent them that info but couldn't read the label in the picture that Kymco USA sent me and that I had forwarded to the dealer. I had the number written down, so now the dealer is ordering the part from Kymco. Hoping to finish this within a few weeks... given that parts shipping can be very slow.
Logged

/bob
2022 Kymco AK 550 Super Touring Extreme in Matte Deep Blue
RETIRED - US Navy and Air National Guard
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2022, 01:51:11 AM »

Just noticed in the email the tech department of Kymco USA sent me with the heated grips information, including the corrected controller part number, they also stated that they have the right part in stock at Kymco USA so shipping won't take as long as coming from Taiwan.
Logged
jdbrot
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 21
Offline Offline

Location: Kentucky
Bikes Owned: Honda Reflex Sport ABS
Posts: 1933

Thank You
-Given: 31
-Receive: 203



« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2022, 03:37:22 AM »

Happy they found your issue. If that was dealer installed it should be under warranty.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2022, 04:47:39 AM »

The heated grips system on the AK 550 is factory installed... as in, it comes from the factory with it. It is a stock/OEM feature on the scooter. So, yes, under warranty.

While it is true that Kymco dealers are not as many in the USA as other brands they ARE around. This experience, so far, is showing me they will take care of service. I haven't had any different an experience with any other brand or dealer including my Honda CTX1300 which did need warranty service on an issue that was pointed out by me when I picked up that bike new with one mile on the odometer and recognized as a warranty issue by the dealer from whom I bought it.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2022, 02:58:27 AM »

Well, My AK 550 is back in my garage. Rented the U-Haul mc trailer again to pick it up today. $14.95+tax is not a bad price to pay for a really nice mc trailer. My wife was busy today with daycare of our youngest granddaughter. The Warranty Coordinator said she took it out for test ride to test the problem and the cure and confirmed the problem was fixed with a generous application of freeze spray with the heated grips controller in the bike as well as on the test bench out of the bike. The original controller unit failed all tests as I already knew it would. The new controller unit passed all tests as I was hoping it would.

Now for my own confidence building test ride. But that will have to wait for this weekend. Since the original controller only failed while riding in temps below 26F I have to wait for those temps to return to verify the repair. Saturday the high will be 25F, but will take a half day to get up to that from 4F. Sunday the high temp will be 21F coming up from a morning temp of 7F. So either day will work. As I suspected the dealer did not put the bike on any battery tender but with a little bit of riding the battery was barely enough to start the scooter. When I turned it on to ride it onto the trailer the battery voltage showed around 11.5v so I was surprised that it did start. But it started right up without any hesitation. So I guess this starter system doesn't need a full battery to start the bike. Good to know.

Yesterday I received highly recommended (by a member on the ST-Owners forum) handlebar mitts by Kemimoto. So I'll be trying those as well when I ride this weekend. My heated grips connectors will be hiding in the under seat storage just in case but if all goes well I won't need that system.

Here's a link to the Kemimoto mitts.
https://www.kemimoto.com/products/kemimoto-atv-mitts-motorcycle-gloves-b0106-00101bk?currency=USD&sscid=11k6_n7y06&utm_source=ShareASale&utm_content=742098
Logged
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2022, 11:12:54 AM »

Sounds like you're good-to-go on the heated grips.
Good luck with the new mitts.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2022, 08:15:19 PM »

I am considering this case closed.
Went out for a 22 mile ride this morning. The sun was shining and the pavement was clear and dry. The temp started out about 7F and went up to around 10F by the end of the ride. I had the Kemimoto mitts installed. They have a clear pocket on top of the right mitt that I put my temp sensor in with the probe hanging out in the wind so I was going by that.

Traveled mostly in town but still some faster roads up to 55 mph as well as a lot of 35 and 45 mph. The original problem was that the heated grips would fail at any temp below 27F within a mile of riding down the road. That meant for me that I was going 40 mph since I have at least a mile on the main road at the end of my street to go anywhere. During this ride I stopped twice to grab and place a tag early in the ride so more than half the ride was non-stop. The heated grips were set to high for the first half of the trip and worked flawlessly the entire time. The Kemimoto mitts were a big bonus keeping my hands warm even out to my finger tips. The heat setting on high started feeling too hot to turned it down to medium and then low. Was a little surprised about that but that means I can ride much colder without my hands getting cold at all. It also means I'll likely no longer need to install my heated gloves system. Debating if I want to sell that.

Here is one picture of the Kemimoto mitts.


* 100_4448.JPG (1580.73 KB, 2576x1932 - viewed 40 times.)
Logged
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2022, 09:02:02 PM »

How easy were they to get your hands into and out of?
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2022, 10:09:20 PM »

How easy were they to get your hands into and out of?

See my thread just posted to review those Kemimoto mitts.

In short... very easy.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2022, 10:37:57 PM »

Well, I spoke too soon earlier.
This case is NOT closed!!!
Yesterday I went for a 22 mile ride with the heated grips set to high for over half the ride and then I turned them down to low for the rest of the ride. I was also trying out my new Kemimoto handlebar muffs along with the heated grips. Everything worked great on that ride. The ambient temps ranged from 7F to 10F so plenty cold for any issue with the controller to show up.

But me thinking that I need to replicate the exact situation when they failed before so I went for a 7 mile ride today. The ambient air temp was around 14F, still colder than when the problem originally showed up. But this time I did not have the muffs on the bars and wore my thickest gloves. The heated grips set on high failed within 2 miles. I did have my phone plugged into the USB port and that is on the same fuse circuit as the heated grips. So I stopped after 4 miles and unplugged my phone to take it out of the circuit. Again, the heated grips set on high failed within the next 2 miles.

This time I paid close attention to the fail flash code showing up on the grip LED. Both times it failed the code was 2 quick flashes followed by a pause, then repeat over and over until the bike was turned off. Per the service manual this indicates that the handlebar heater temp sensor is faulty. Not the controller unit that was just replaced.

It is possible that both items were faulty before but that the temp sensor didn't fail for the dealer but the controller unit did. The controller unit failed during bench testing so it was definitely bad. The heated grips likely worked flawlessly yesterday because I had the handlebar muffs covering the handlebars... protecting the handlebar heater temp sensor from the ambient temp while riding. I suppose if I have to I can just continue to ride with the bar muffs installed. BUT this is all still under warranty and should be working without me doing anything to make up for a failing part. And that is exactly why I went out today without the muffs. I need the heated grips to be working as intended from the factory at any temp that is commonly experienced in my area. And I ride at all of those temps no matter how low they go. OK, I might not ride if the temp drops to -20F (-28.9C). But that temp very rare around here. It is common to see a temp as low as -4F (-20C) around here during the cold season. And I don't want anything to prevent me from riding then other than snow/ice on the pavement.

So it turns out that both the controller and the handlebar heater temp sensor were defective. Rather bummed now since that means another trip to the dealer. And, looking at the weather reports for the next 2 weeks, it is unlikely that I'll be seeing the temps drop again to a level cold enough to verify any repair until next year.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2022, 01:54:18 AM »

Decided it would be a good idea to cross check my results and testing by getting another ride in WITH the muffs on the bars again. Went on another ride tonight just before sunset at 15F and with the muffs on the bars no errors or fails with the heated grips throughout the 8.5 mile ride. So definitely they fail when the handlebars are not covered and sheltered from the cold temps by the muffs this time around.
Logged
CelticCross
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 4
Offline Offline

Location: NE Ohio
Bikes Owned: AK 550
Posts: 298

Thank You
-Given: 18
-Receive: 28



Email
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2022, 05:13:34 PM »

Thanks Bob. While I donít have plans on riding while it is so cold, knowing what problems occur with the heated grips is invaluable for other AK 550 owners. I was leaning towards getting hand guards for cooler weather riding but the mitts appear to be a much smarter option as you are proving that they keep your hands warmer and allow the scooterís heated grips to continue functioning.

Great research and reporting.

CC
Logged

CelticCross
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2022, 07:36:48 PM »

The hand guards might work well enough when riding in warmer than freezing temps... like warmer than +41F (+5C). But the handlebar muffs work so much nicer and are so much more cozy even without using the heated grips.
Logged
jdbrot
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 21
Offline Offline

Location: Kentucky
Bikes Owned: Honda Reflex Sport ABS
Posts: 1933

Thank You
-Given: 31
-Receive: 203



« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2022, 07:45:02 PM »

Intermittent are the worst to find. Glad the mitts help.
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2022, 02:32:04 AM »

Heard back from the dealer today. KymcoUSA is going through them for all information that they are passing to me which is reasonable since I was attempting to take advantage of a contact at KymcoUSA but really should be working through the dealer anyway.

On the current status of this issue Kymco told the dealer that based on all my testing that I have documented that it is their opinion that battery voltage/current is dropping too low for the heated grips to work properly. They also stated that the temps I reported riding in are well within what is acceptable for the heated grips to work so the ambient air temp is not the problem. The idea is that if the handlebar heater temp sensor is working at any air temp then that is not really the problem. I can totally understand if at very low ambient air temps the heated grips draw more on the battery than at warmer (relatively) air temps. And also that the handlebar muffs shield the grips from the colder air temps allowing them to operate more efficiently without drawing down the battery as much. This all indicates that the original factory installed battery may not be able to keep up in cold weather.

This would not be the first time I've heard of a factory supplied battery in ANY BRAND of bike being a bit less capable than any replacement would be. Even if the replacement is the same source brand. I've heard of this issue with every brand and model of bike that I know of.

The factory OEM battery that I have in my AK 550 is a Kymco branded Yuasa TTZ14S. Here in the USA the one available that is the same thing is the Yuasa YTZ14S. All the same specs but filled at the factory. This is a 11.8 Ah (20 HR) or 11.2Ah (10 HR) class battery. I looked more closely at the electrical diagrams I have and that shows a 14 Ah battery. The main thing I am thinking right now is that since the battery installed is Kymco branded then it may not be exactly the same quality as a battery direct from Yuasa even of the same model number. The difference between TTZ and YTZ batteries is that TTZ batteries come with an acid pack that must be used to fill the battery when it is put into service and YTZ batteries come from the factory with the acid already in the battery. Both are sealed AGM batteries. Those overseas members (not in the USA) already know this most likely.

All this is consistent with the additional detail that the same circuit that powers the heated grips also powers the USB port in the glove box and when my phone is plugged into that it stops charging at the same time as when the heated grips stop working. Yet my phone keeps charging when I am using the handlebar muffs just like the heated grips keep working.

In the next day or two I'll be going out for another test ride and this time pay particular attention to the battery voltage indicated on the dash volt meter. I did verify tonight that the indicated voltage is not just alternator output but actually what the voltage is showing at the battery. I tested with my meter on the Battery Tender plug while the bike was turned off and also while the bike was running on the center stand. The Battery Tender cable is directly connected to the battery only so shows the actual battery voltage at the battery same as what would be "seen" by any of the bike systems while the bike is running.
Logged
jdbrot
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 21
Offline Offline

Location: Kentucky
Bikes Owned: Honda Reflex Sport ABS
Posts: 1933

Thank You
-Given: 31
-Receive: 203



« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2022, 02:27:02 PM »

Charging and output amps are what you need to check, correct voltage with insufficient amperage just won't power the high current draw of heated grips. Same with starters.
Logged
JaimeC
Scooter Freshman
*

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Location: Hicksville, NY (USA)
Bikes Owned: 1999 BMW K1200LT, 2019 Yamaha XMAX 300
Posts: 31

Thank You
-Given: 11
-Receive: 4



WWW Email
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2022, 04:20:04 PM »

Does Odyssey make a battery that fits?  They've always been my "Go To" for AGM batteries.  They've never let me down yet...
Logged

Jaime A. Cruz
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
Expat47
Administrator
Doctor of Scooterology
*****

Karma: 27
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, Greece
Bikes Owned: Kymco AK550 & '12 Piaggio X10 (sold). & '08 SYM GTS (sold)
Posts: 4232

Thank You
-Given: 175
-Receive: 250


Feelin' good.


WWW Email
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2022, 07:15:07 AM »

Does Odyssey make a battery that fits?  They've always been my "Go To" for AGM batteries.  They've never let me down yet...

I did a quick look-see and it doesn't look like it. The OEM Yuasa is L150,W84,H110mm with positive on the right.


* 2022-02-19_071418.jpg (40.03 KB, 282x251 - viewed 23 times.)
Logged
JaimeC
Scooter Freshman
*

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Location: Hicksville, NY (USA)
Bikes Owned: 1999 BMW K1200LT, 2019 Yamaha XMAX 300
Posts: 31

Thank You
-Given: 11
-Receive: 4



WWW Email
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2022, 05:40:19 PM »

I sent them a request to see if they had an equivalent battery to that pictured Yuasa.  Let's see what they say...
Logged
rjs987
2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550
Scooter Grad Student
***

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 275

Thank You
-Given: 64
-Receive: 10


2022 Matte Deep Blue Kymco AK 550


Email
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2022, 09:24:27 PM »

WELL, here's a puzzle.
Went riding today without the muffs on the bars. Wore my thickest gloves and set the heated grips on high. The temp during this ride started out at 15F and ended up at 21F. I rode just over 23 miles.
AND THE HEATED GRIPS WORKED GREAT THE ENTIRE RIDE. I rode a variety of roads ranging from 35 mph to 55 mph. I was paying particular attention to the volt meter reading during this ride. I do recall seeing the voltage drop to 13.8 during the rides when the heated grips did fail before but wasn't really paying a lot of attention to it or correlating that voltage drop to the grips failing.
It is possible that the battery needed more time to recover and charge every cell completely after sitting at the dealer for 3 weeks without being plugged into any battery tender/maintainer device. A battery can show full voltage even if one or two cells are not fully charged and that would only show up during a full load being put on the battery. That could be why the heated grips failed a week ago. Since the controller unit was replaced that part has not failed. But if the battery wasn't able to provide full power to the system it could cause a random error code to show. It is also possible that what ever caused the fail code a week ago has resolved itself otherwise, but more likely the battery has now been fully charged and conditioned to equalize all the cells.

Since this ride was way past 12 times as long as when the heated grips failed any time in the past I'm not going to worry about this issue any more. One of my goals has been to be able to no longer need my heated gloves system. And also to not need to wear my heated gloves at all since they are thicker than any of my other gloves. They have been great for when I need them but with heated grips and the muffs on the bars I don't see that I'll need the thicker gloves any more. My plan moving forward is that any time the temps can drop below freezing during a ride I will use the handlebar muffs with the heated grips. My ride last week at 7F with the muffs showed me that my hands will be plenty warm with this combo down below zeroF.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page May 13, 2022, 12:19:10 PM