Maxi Scoots

Bike Maintenance/Questions => Suzuki => Topic started by: Maggie on August 17, 2010, 06:36:20 PM



Title: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on August 17, 2010, 06:36:20 PM

Quote
Buffalo wrote on Mar 17, 2010 - 10:42 AM:
Maggie, if you haven't been following this thread on B-USA you might want to give it a look.  [url]http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44912[/url] ([url]http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44912[/url]) It talks about an issue with the stopper bolt for the CVT on the 650 that might be the root cause of some of the failures that have occured. I inspected the bolt in mine and it was showing the damage so I replaced it.  I posted pictures of my bolt in the thread.  Changing the bolt out is a 2 minutes job so probably a good idea to add to the PM routine. Biggest problem will be getting a new bolt, the thread seems to have caused a run on them and they are back ordered.  



Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: WildBillPurdue on August 18, 2010, 07:26:08 PM
After another phone call from my beloved Suzuki shop, they feel they may get the last of the re-engineered parts in the nex t couple of days. This will mean they need 2 hours more, and the bike should be ready to test ride.

Question I have for you folks, this bike has been sitting since mid May. What besides the fluid quantities, air in tires, and battery refresh, should I need to be concerned with?

I will, when the time comes, ride until I can't stand it... Then I have a lawyer to visit.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Dan on August 18, 2010, 08:09:44 PM
The only thing I would be concerned about (other than what you mentioned) is the gas in the tank and the fuel line.  Was any kind of fuel stabilizer used when it was taken to the shop?


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on August 19, 2010, 02:06:53 AM
To tear it down to get to the CVT they probably pulled the tank so the lines were drained so you shouldn't have any problems there.   You might ask the mechanic about the wisdom of empting the tank and starting out with fresh fuel.  Other than that just the things you alreay mentioned. 

I would be interested in any more info you can give on the new and improved parts.  Maybe they will let you sneak a picture or two of them before they put everyting back together.   


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: HappyPuppy on August 19, 2010, 02:32:03 AM
Stale gas if it is e10. Add some Sea Foam or similar. There is some new stuff I saw that is mostly for big marine engines that hate e10 that is supposed to work well at marine supply stores.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Duster on August 19, 2010, 05:47:39 AM
After another phone call from my beloved Suzuki shop, they feel they may get the last of the re-engineered parts in the nex t couple of days. This will mean they need 2 hours more, and the bike should be ready to test ride.
Question I have for you folks, this bike has been sitting since mid May. What besides the fluid quantities, air in tires, and battery refresh, should I need to be concerned with?
I will, when the time comes, ride until I can't stand it... Then I have a lawyer to visit.

Hey Doc...2 Valiums for the operator, please.............. :blob:


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: davethescoot on August 21, 2010, 07:35:04 PM
I changed my stopper bolt after seeing the thead on Burgmanusa, and I too will be very interested as to what 'new parts' Suzuki may have come up with.


(http://s2.postimage.org/2ZGyS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts2ZGyS)


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: WildBillPurdue on August 30, 2010, 04:54:57 AM
I paid for the first CVT replacement knowing full well they (Suzuki) knew of the issue with the CVT stopper bolt. I was going to try and get that money back sometime after returning from DC back in May. When I had the same issue happen again, except this time that same bolt had snapped into the CVT casing, two days after getting back from DC, the bike shop said that I would be paying for the repair again because they only warranted 30 days or 1,000 miles. It had only been 15 days, but the DC trip was 1400 miles. I was then told that the bike shop would only continue to try to fix the problem IF I would give them $892 of up front labor money. This without checking anything from Suzuki corporate. This was after they had spent weeks saying that the problems were other parts such as the ECM, a CVT pulley sensor, and other things taking weeks in between time for parts ordering and  installation only to find these things did not fix the problem. The shop immediately knew that something was wrong with either the design or parts strength, when they found that this same bolt which had walked out of position before causing a bearing to spin out of control to fail the CVT, had actually snapped inside the CVT. The shop told me they had to drill out some of the seized parts within the casing. This became more than just a malfunction issue with defective parts or placement, it had become a life threatening situation for not only myself, but my daughter. If the snapped off bolt would have seized the CVT as we rode 70 mph on the interstate, who knows what a position this would have put me in, let alone lock the rear wheel at 70 mph. I have proof that the same exact situation happened in Texas months prior to it happening to me, and elsewhere in the world too. Suzuki has known about this issue and chose to do nothing but charge folks for new CVT replacements which cost in the 2,500 - $3k+ range for parts and labor. Suzuki finally agreed to pay for the 3rd CVT parts and labor, but nothing has been said about the 2nd, that lasted only 1400 miles. Note, this bike shop had done all my maintenance and upkeep prior to the CVT issues, and they said that they could only do what Suzuki told them to do. They only refunded that $892 in upfront labor money when Suzuki said to order what was needed, that they would pay for the 3rd CVT.     


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: HappyPuppy on August 30, 2010, 05:32:26 AM
Make sure you report it http://www.nhtsa.gov/ (http://www.nhtsa.gov/)  On my 2005 Majesty the ECU would cut out and enough complaints generated a recall.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on August 30, 2010, 03:22:53 PM
Anyone with a 650 should make a complaint.  Thanks Bob!  

I will draft my letter and do this today!


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: davew on September 05, 2010, 08:41:04 PM
reading this is making me feel all warm and fuzzy about Piaggio


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on June 05, 2012, 01:31:13 AM
Two years later and still no wear on the new improved bolt.  Any one else had to change since the initial change to the new bolt?


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on June 05, 2012, 02:55:18 AM
Mine is still holding up well with about 38,000 miles on it. 


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: runron on January 19, 2013, 12:43:15 AM
ok now i,m confused what bolt are we talking about??? runron


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on January 19, 2013, 12:51:20 AM
It is a bolt that screws through the bottom of the CVT housing.  It's purpose is to keep the primary pully adjuster from spinning when the electric adjuster motot engages.  It does that by fitting into a slot in the adjuster.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: runron on January 20, 2013, 01:25:50 AM
thanks buffalo , i will be checking mine


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Noth on January 20, 2013, 03:11:59 PM
Very old subject..Lots & Lots of threads about this overon Burgman USA.. Here's one of many.. http://www.burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59934&p=554573&hilit=stopper&sid=0b8c548a4b027bf27c08927e45b10cd5#p554573 (http://www.burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59934&p=554573&hilit=stopper&sid=0b8c548a4b027bf27c08927e45b10cd5#p554573)

Assume that all of us here, are also there?  Supposedly it is worth checking.. but older Burgs seem to have a bigger problem and it was redesigned along the way..


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: SilverBullet on April 16, 2013, 10:00:37 PM
Well...broke down & changed mine on my 05 with 38.142 miles on the clock. Honestly I don't think mine looked all that bad, You can't tell much from the cheap camera I have. slightly scraped on 1/2 of the top & a couple small gouges. BUT, the $5.80 it cost for the 50 cent bolt & the couple minutes it takes to replace it seems to be pretty cheap insurance.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff220/wingnutttt/001-4_zps6399a096.jpg) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/wingnutttt/media/001-4_zps6399a096.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on April 16, 2013, 11:18:48 PM
I would say yours didn't need changing.  I would have just put it back in and kept the new bolt until it was needed.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on June 18, 2015, 03:04:06 AM
Two years later and still no wear on the new improved bolt.  Any one else had to change since the initial change to the new bolt?

Five years later and no wear on the new bolt.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on June 18, 2015, 04:23:06 AM
That says you probably have an otherwise healthy CVT. 

When the stopper bolt issue first cropped up the assumption was that the CVT failed because the stopper bolt failed.  As time as gone by many, include me, have come to the conclusion that it's the other way around.  The stopper bolt fails because there was something else wrong inside the CVT.  In other words the stopper bolt acts like the canary in the coal mine.  As long as it is not showing excessive wear then your CVT is likely to be trouble free.  About the only thing you need to worry about is a belt wearing out.   


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on June 18, 2015, 01:48:16 PM
Thanks for the info!  Still good for a periodic check for sure!


I brought this up again because one of club members is looking at another former club members 06B650.  (You remember Kevin from HAMS in Jeff City rode the B650, did Tai Chi in parking lot early in the morning.  (Robin will remember that part :) ))

Kevin doesn't get to ride like he use to as his daughter gets older. Wants 2500 for the 45,000 mile meticulously well kept machine.   Think Gary is going to see him tonight.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: jpowell692 on May 04, 2017, 06:03:18 PM
I just bought a 2011 Burgman 650. Is there an issue with that model year with the stop bolt? My dealer didn't think so.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on May 04, 2017, 07:07:21 PM
2011 bikes have the updated primary pulley assembly in them.  Among other things that includes a modification that allows for a longer stopper bolt that goes further down into the pulley assembly.  That should help with the wear on the end of the bolt.

More important is that they increased the number of keys on the shaft to four.  After years of dealing with these CVTs I have come to the conclusion that the stopper bolt is not the cause of problems.  It is a symptom and warning that something is going wrong inside the CVT.  One of those things can be the keys on the shaft are failing.  The increase in the number of of keys should help that.

If I were you I would still periodically pull the bolt and inspect it.  Not with an eye toward replacing it but as an indication that all is well inside the CVT.  Some dings on the end of it are normal.  What you are looking for is excessive wear that is mangling the end of it.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: minimac on May 04, 2017, 10:02:44 PM
I went to my local dealer last week to order the stopper bolt, just to have, should the need arise. The parts guy didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I gave him the (updated) part number because he couldn't find one. He still couldn't help me. Finally the owner came over, I explained what I was looking for. I got a blank stare.....After another 1/2 hour, of showing both of them in their books where it is and what it does, I was finally able to order it. No wonder there are so few scooters around here. Hopefully it will be here Monday-but I'm not overly confident!


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: jpowell692 on May 04, 2017, 10:45:48 PM
Buffalo
Thanks for the information.
My dealer said they service 4 other 650s and 7 400s. Seem to be good at want they do. I had purchased a 2011 Burgman 400 last summer with just under 9,000 miles. Nothing but problems and low gas mileage. They suggested I sell or trade it. They didn't have anything I wanted but checked out me new to me 2011/650 without changing me for the 1 hour labor it took. Excellent customer service.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Maggie on May 05, 2017, 02:59:53 AM
I went to my local dealer last week to order the stopper bolt, just to have, should the need arise. The parts guy didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I gave him the (updated) part number because he couldn't find one. He still couldn't help me. Finally the owner came over, I explained what I was looking for. I got a blank stare.....After another 1/2 hour, of showing both of them in their books where it is and what it does, I was finally able to order it. No wonder there are so few scooters around here. Hopefully it will be here Monday-but I'm not overly confident!

If it doesn't arrive I have an extra somewhere here.  Let me know.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: minimac on May 05, 2017, 01:37:07 PM
Thanks for the offer...I'll let you know!


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: jpowell692 on July 16, 2020, 03:40:33 AM
I now have just over 47k on my 2011 Burgman 650. Has anyone been proactive and changed the drive belt? I'm going on a 2 thousand vacation and don't want to have a problem in route.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: minimac on July 16, 2020, 02:25:46 PM
If you don't already know, the drive belt in the 650 is not like the 400. It's more of a chain/meshy thing that is very pricey, unless you convince Buffalo to do it, to have done. If you were to decide to have it done, there are a few other pricey parts that should be changed while everything is apart. When my CVT went (mine was a '06 with 29K miles) the dealer wanted over $2K! And that was a couple of years ago. As much as I liked that bike, I was lucky and found someone willing to buy it and the replacement CVT from a wreck that I bought. Yours should be fine-ride until it doesn't go anymore. Of course, I'm not an expert- but I have slept in a few Holiday Inn Expresses.


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on July 16, 2020, 05:07:11 PM
As minimac said, preventive changing of the belt in the 650 is hard to justify from a cost standpoint unless you are willing to do the work yourself.  If you are mechanically inclined and have the place and tools to do the work it is possible.  I've now changed the belts in 4 different 650s.  It is a big job and the first time you do it will probably take a couple of days at least.   

If you plan to pay someone to do it expect to pay a minimum $1500 and maybe more depending on the shops labor billing rates.  Most of that cost is for the labor required to get the CVT out of the bike so that the belt can be changed then reinstalling it. 

At 47K I would not be to worried about the belt breaking.  If you have been diligent about keeping the CVT filter clean, you followed Suzuki recommendations for break in when the bike was new and you have not subjected the bike to conditions that could increase heat build up in the CVT; you likely will get 70 to 80K out of the belt.
Heat is the villain that shortens the life of the belt. 

If you rode it like you stole it when new then excessive slippage before break in caused heat that could shorten the life.  If you never clean the CVT filter then restricted cooling air flow caused heat that could shorten belt life.  Ditto for revving the engine against the brake for fast take off, pulling trailers,  carrying excessive weight loads, etc. 


Title: Re: Burgman 650 Stopper Bolt Issue - VERY IMPORTANT!!
Post by: Buffalo on July 16, 2020, 05:15:01 PM
BTW, most CVT issues at early mileage are not belt breakage.  They are bearing or primary pulley malfunction issues.